Murdock talks about his experiences growing up in Cass Corridor and Southwest Detroit. He also talks about why he loves his neighborhood and what he feels needs to change.
Detroit Historical Society
Detroit Historical Society
Robert Murdock, the youngest of seven children, lived in the Cass Corridor and in Southwest Detroit.
Alivia: My name is Alivia Kobolak the day is Oct 31 and I’m interviewing Mr. Robert Murdock. And our First question is where and when were you born? Murdock: I was born in 1971 June 14th In detroit michigan the heart of detroit. Alivia: What neighborhood did you grow up in? Murdock: Um I grew up in like I would say probably three or four different neighborhoods but they’re all in the same region ya know? So my first neighborhood was like Cass Corridor now it’s called midtown or something like that and that was the first area. Alivia: Um what would you say it was like? Murdock: Um it was pretty um….I thought ya know it was pretty cool it was uh definitely um...a true neighborhood back then ya know. It was like an area that you could ya know go out and enjoy and not worry about things back then so it was fun to me ya know...it was fun and a lot of learning experiences as I grew up but ya it’s pretty awesome. Alivia: Was is was an integrated neighborhood? Murdock: Yes it was very integrated we had just about every nationality religion and culture that you could think of down there. Alivia: what did you do for fun? Murdock: To be honest well what did we do for fun? Everything haha ya know. We went in places we weren’t supposed to and we did things we weren’t supposed to which was all fun to a kid ya know even now a days it’s doing the wrong is still fun ya know what I mean so yea it was fun haha. Alivia: Where did your parents work? Murdock: My parents didn’t work um….my mom had 7 kids I’m the youngest of 7 so she didn’t work my father did some what kind of a work but he was a very good supporter ya know at the time. Alivia: Where did you go shopping? Murdock: Do you mean for food or for clothes or for what? Alivia: Yea just in general. Murdock: Um back then it was a store called king call on grand river and trumble it was a grocery store and that’s where we shopping for food and stuff like that. Alivia: Where did you go to school? Murdock: Um I went to school at owen elementary um I started (inaudible) then I went to Pelham then I went to Airheart and I went to Southwestern. Alivia: Are there any stories from your childhood or your neighborhood that you’d like to share? Murdock: Um sure ya I can share a lot about um my childhood and my neighborhood um depending on how much you wanna hear haha how much you willing to listen cause we can be here all night. I’ll start out in my first neighborhood in downtown Detroit which we called back then Cass Corridor now I believe it's Midtown or something like that….Second and Sheldon Third Cass and Henry ya know. It was fun back then ya know early 70s um there was a lot to do not a lot for kids to do down there ya know less uh you was outgoing and easy to get along with other kids ya know. There was this uh one time we had a uh little hamburger joint that right on Second and Sheldon that our ma used to take us to all the time and we hung out there and we used to uh always bug people for change and stuff like that ya know. But I remember this one time we used to always one up to this one old guy he was a real funny character….but we used to run up to him and mess with him a lot and it was uh one time he got us really good we were messing with him and he turned around and he had this masked on or something I can't remember really what it was and he turned around and he turned around and got all there was about six or seven of us kids and Man! He turned around and scared the heck out of all of us we all shot out of there running and screaming like hell! Ya know pretty funny I'm surprised I really even remember that but yea it was fun ya know that a real small childhood memory right there so um yeah that was different ya know. It um do you wanna go onto the next question or do you want me to keep going with that one? Alivia: Um whatever um do you want to tell another story? Murdock: What's the next question? Alivia: The next question is did you venture around the city growing up or did you tend to stay in your own neighborhood? Murdock: Ok uh thats a good question yea I uh ventured around the city a lot me and my little group of friends. Uh we we back then hanging out in detroit was a neighborhood detroit was a neighborhood ya know because everybody knew everybody ya know and we all pretty much got along with each other ya know so we used to uh downtown downtown by harbor plaza back then it was the renaissance center and stuff and ya know we'd go down there and skip school and hang out at harbor plaza and ride our bikes and stuff it was pretty fun ya know I can't really remember too many times when it wasn't fun down there ya know there's a lot of things doing and a lot of stuff to get into and a lot of trouble to get into too ya know a lot stuff got into a lot if trouble ya know but that's part of growing up still is a part of growing up ya know what I mean it's uh pretty different and uh a lot of fun experiences back then ya know in that area its a lot different from what it is now ya know of course it changes and somewhat went back and changed more ya know but yea a lot of um obviously a lot of things back then aren't around now ya know especially when they came in with the casinos and stuff like that and started knocking things down and they knocked down a couple of the houses I grew up in and wonder bread where MGM is or no motor city casino that's actually the old wonder bread factory now um I grew up right there on temple and uh trumble in the uh wonder bread factor was right there on temple and brooklyn so there was uh there used to the wonder bread factor was on the left hand corner if you're going down temple towards cass corridor wonder bread factor was on the left there was the little church there and a big apartment building on the right and a lot houses and stuff but all that stuffs gone know but it was uh a lot of things down there to get into and have fun with ya know. Alivia: Did you feel comfortable in the city? Murdock: Absolutely I felt more comfortable and still do feel more comfortable in the city and around the city than I've ever felt or that I've felt anywhere ya know cause that was my home ya know I knew everybody everybody knew me and my sisters and brothers ya know it wasnt uh too many people that was down in there that didnt know one another unless they was knew to the area so yea I felt very comfortable down there and still do. Alivia: Uh is there another story you'd like to share? Murdock: Sure. Um let me try to think of a good story for you. Give me a minute here, you can pause it if you want. What was the question again? Alivia: You were gonna share another story. Murdock: Alright so yea another...lets go with uh back down in the real hood as we call in now cass corridor when you hear somebody refer to midtown downtown detroit that area when you hear somebody actually say the word Cass Corridor that usually means they're either from that area or they hung out in that area back in the early 70s 80s early 90s late 90s kinda faded out and they started changing it ya know and it went with the original name midtown so ya know so I was gonna tell you another story about cass corridor the original neighborhood ya know beautiful place man gotta couple art galleries down there the one that really comes to my mind right now on temple and second is the Masonic Temple it's a big theater you ever been there? Alivia: I think I might have. Murdock: Its right on the corner of second a temple big uh I forget the name of the park thats across the street from it and then to left of it there was a couple party stores right on the corner of third and temple there was a party story I forgot the name but my sister one of my sisters jackie she went out with the guy his son the guy that owned the joint his son was my um my next age up a couple of years he was uh her age and the started hanging out ok and they are calidian and you're talking back in the day this is the 80s aw man bad idea bad idea because calideans are very very nice very very respected religion they have very nice people very respected people very active members of society ya know so very strict on the religion and the rules of the house and man and women so my uh sister started to uh thought of the idea of his son wrong I remember one time i'm walking over i'm walking down temple to the guys store to pick up sam was the guys name and uh me and my sister walked crossed over third to get to him to get across to the party store and sam come running out the store ya know he looked like oh know he's not really running but he's walking fast with those big eyes and me a jackie look at him like what's going on ya know what I mean he started looking at us and shaking his head and right when he starts shaking his head his dad comes running out the store with a baseball bat hahaha he's chasing me and my sister get away from my son get away from my son you guys are no good and screaming and stuff ya know he did not want his son to date an american white girl ya know that was a big no no back then um still is ya know there culture uh they ya know they believe in what they believe in so he's running us down and uh sam catches up with my sister and they start running and i'm running across and here comes the smart bus back then it was just the dot city bus ya know and it almost about took me i mean it just about it knocked me down ya know and sam here comes his dad and sam and jackie just get across the street and I almost get hit by a bus and his dad is right behind me so the bus cuts him off haha and me sam and jackie took off haha and it was so funny cause he was right there and ya know the areas populated a lot of people almost like a quarter street in new york so ya know and it was just really funny cause he come running out like a real old guy like i'm gonna get you you little punks. Haha. ya thats i mean there's some things i remember and know off the top of my head but if there's any specific events you wanna bring up….(inaudible) we can go onto the next question. Alivia: has your neighborhood changed over the years or has it stayed the same? Murdock: No uh my neighborhood has changed um dramatically more so now then I ever I mean it's been im what 48 i think so 50 49 something like that but uh yea um the neighborhood stayed the same for a very very long time for probably 25 years it didn't change ya know so the um little caesars people i forget there name big builder down there that own little caesars and red wings and all that stuff i'll think of it in a minute but he started to buy up a lot of property down there and he put in the baseball field and pretty much everything going on downtown but through the neighborhood of course it a trickling affect it goes through the houses and the stores ya know the first thing you do is start tearing down everyone's house ya know but it's changing for the better ya know it looks good there's more people getting down there it's getting more populated ya know its a lot more activities for people to do a lot more jobs and it's a beautiful city to see anyways it's a beautiful city to live in now its safe ya know it's changed big time dramatically in ya know the occurences of all the bad ya know but um thieves car jacks ya know stores getting robbed it stopped ya know so i mean everybody feels safe and they wanna go downtown to live why not ya know its like one of the best places mike ilitch ya so ya know that guy he's put a lot of money into the city man he's built everything down there just about if he didnt built it himself he I bet you he was on every project there was ya know because uh (inaudible) I couldn't think of it it was right on the tip of my tongue ya know um so but yea I love the changing it has changed dramatically for the good ya know so if I had the money i'd love to go down there and buy some land even a quarter lot put a little house on ya know it's gonna be worth big money in 20 years from now trust me. Alivia: Would you say it was less populated and more crime ridden when you lived there? Murdock: then there is now? Alivia: Yea Murdock: Oh yea way more now well I'll start like this back when i was growing up in the neighborhood um we had gangs started popping up around the late 80s early 90s started out with the um crips which was the latin counts in southwest detroit and you started out with the gangster disciples which was folks in southwest detroit which folks and bloods are rivalries ya know they're at each other so ones blue and ones red so that's the main two things that drops in the city and then you got everything branches off of that ya know it's different little organizations so that hit in the late 80s early 90s and then it got horrible crack was down heroin was there um there was so much there was just so much going on there was one point where you could actually walk down venor avenue between uh clarkdale and what is it um clarkdale and clark right in that area clark park right across the street that's where clark park is right you can walk down venor down from third precinct all the way around to probably springwells and see nothing but people hanging out getting high all night long all day long ya know and it was out of control ya know it was pretty nuts and now compared to now the city is an angle haha it really is its changed ya know out of a 100 id say tis changed a good 85% as far as the uh the uh crime history of it and everything and drugs and all that the violence big time so yea. Alivia: What do you think caused it to change? Murdock: Mike ilitch I really to I think it took somebody to invest in the city that new that the city was a gemstone which it is every city is in its own way and um he took that little turd and he polished it up put investments in it out investors in it ya know got family in it so the city started ya know seeing how he supports his workers his staff and ya know people thats he brings them in the city and ya know that's where it starts ya know I think mike ilitch that might not sound (inaudible) but hes the man. Alivia: Uh have you ever thought of moving away? Murdock: oh yea many times all the time I still do Alivia: If yes why? Murdock: Cause you always I don't care where you grow up at to me this is just my thought why I think I want to (inaudible) cause there's always a new start ya know knew people you have to find new friends ya know expand your horizon go outside your box why not. But its always be my home its from im from yea i might jump down to florida mima texa wherever the heck but I always end up right back here within the year haha in my opinion because i had three kids but I still think I would end up back here ya know. Alivia: Did you stay in the neighborhood growing up or did you move to different neighborhoods? Murdock: um no i uh moved to different neighborhoods but within the same region ya know uh I went from born in cass corridors so I lived cass corridors was the first area then we moved over to trumble and temple which is called corktown and uh i lived there till I was 12 13 and then I moved over to southwest detroit junction and vernor clark vernor uh that area and we stayed there for the rest of my teen um yea so (inaudible) I stayed in the neighborhood until I was like 20 19 actually 18 I moved out got forced out but yea haha. Alivia: What caused you to move each time? Murdock: Um each time I moved when I was a kid was because of my ma we never owned a house my ma raised us by herself so my dad out of the picture so we rented everywhere ya know moved just cause I don't know why I don't remember haha. Alivia: When someone says the neighborhoods what does that mean to you? Murdock: When somebody says the neighborhoods that means to me that it's not necessarily detroit but all the neighborhoods throughout the continent it means unity to me it means um a place that you've grown up and got to know real well and have a lot of friends and probably family there ya know and the friends that you have there have become your family that's what a neighborhood is a neighborhood is people that have love and concern for another that passes around an area and becomes a big neighborhood ya know. Alivia: Um how do you feel about the state of your neighborhood today? Murdock: the state of my neighborhood the state of my neighborhood that I live in or (phone rings) hold on ok so how do I feel about the state of my neighborhood today right I feel pretty good about it it's going in the right direction it's getting more populated now it seems it's been cleaned up a whole lot new houses going up so I feel pretty good about it it's gonna be really really good nice neighborhood again for the first time in 25 years to be honest with you ya know as far as i'm concerned so ya I feel pretty good about it it's going in the right direction. Alivia: What would you like to see happen with your neighborhood? Murdock: Well what would I like to see what's happen with or (inaudible) Alvia: What would you like to see happen with your neighborhood. Murdock: Oh happen with mt neighborhood um exactly what happening to it right now it's getting better ya know more people are moving into the area more families more stores its beautiful area so it should be a neighborhood again so absolutely love it. Alivia: if you could get a project done in your neighborhood what would it be? Murdock: A project done in my neighborhood would be to uh open there used to be a youth center down on temple and cochran I believe uh there was a party store called tiger village and the youth center used to be right across the street and right next to it used to be a house where people could come get clothes and food and stuff like that a help center that would be my project is to open that back up and see that back opening and running in that neighborhood that would be pretty fucking awesome cause right now its closed to be honest I should probably look into that haha. Alivia: How do you feel about the state of the city today? Murdock: The state of the city today I'm not really like on the fence about it at all cause the neighborhood is getting better and its dramatically changed and is still changing and getting even more better so I feel pretty good about it. Alivia: What caused you to move to southwest? Murdock: Um what caused me to move to southwest well for one it would be my mom haha and for two I think it was really time for a change for me as I was growing up cause it was at that time when I was going into my teens I was like 13 when we moved so um it was that it was time for that change ya know as a kid to move being 11 and growing up in the city and neighborhoods its I ain't gonna say good to move around but as you get older you need to as far as when I grew up cause that help me expand my horizon and my friends ships and known associates everything so yea. Alivia: What was southwest like? Murdock: Um southwest was fun that's what it was like haha. Cause I grew up there in the golden years I would say the 80s um I grew up in southwest I went to Airhart middle school I went to airheart grade school and then I went to southwestern high and uh what was the question again? Alivia: what was it like? Murdock: Oh what was it like so it was very very very um cultural differences a lot of ethics ya know a lot of different backgrounds. A lot of different what do you call….um can't think of it…..but ok lemme stop haha...what'd ya say again? Alivia: what did you normally do for fun? Murdock: what did I normally do for fun as a kid I wouldn't say for fun but terrorize people thats what I did I was in a gang so my teenage years wasn't really being a kid I was more of an adult when I hit 14 I had my own place I had a car I had been driving a car since I was probably 9 cause I grew up on tumblr when the old tigers stadium used to be there and we used to run up to cars and say watch your car for 50 cent and when they went into the stadium wed steal the fucking car hahaha so everything was handed to us ya know sometimes with the keys hahaha but so uh what was the question again? Alivia: What did you do for fun? Murdock: Oh yea so I would say my uh interpretation of fun when I was a kid is a lot different from normal kids interpretation cause a lot of stuff I had done I didn't really have a choice to do or not to do it was a choice you'd done it was how we done things ya know you did what you had to do to eat to put clothes on your back food on your family table and help pay bills because my mom was raising 7 of us and there wasn't anyone else helping her my sisters and brothers they helped her ya know when I was young and I was in my early teens all through my teens I helped my mom so it was a bit of struggle (inaudible) I was probably beat the shit out of them and watch them cry cause thats what we did or sell some cars or some drugs or something like that so it's different I don't know if you can use that or not but do what you can Alivia: Are there any stories from your neighborhood that you'd like to share? Murdock: Um yea sure. Um i don't know I might share a couple the uh stories if you want to hear them or if you wanna use them is up to you but um there was some good stories I lived on junction and toledo um I was like 15 years old i'm right across from a bar called the red rooster we lived in the apartment building if you stand in front of the red rooster id be on your left hand side we lived in the upper flat right across from us was a barber shop and uh the barber shop guys name that was there his name was ed he owned the building it was his place and everything he sold weed out of it haha it was a big drug front is what it was but it was pretty cool he cut all the kids hair in the neighborhood we went to him to get weed and get our hair cut it was pretty cool man he helped me do a lot of things so yea I don't know there was uh right down the street were doing stories right? I don't know what the story about ed was but hahaha let me see another story this one time this guy came out of the place and it was this bar right on the corner of junction and toledo mexican joint it's like 6 o'clock in the morning and i'm walking down the street going to vernor to the coney island right there on the corner and I look down and right on the curb is laying an mbd envelope bank envelop and it looked thick like ya know holy fuck but it was wet when I fucking stopped and picked that envelop eup it had like 3000 dollars in it no joke back then there was a lot of puerto ricans and cubans so a lot of big drug dealers so it was somebody's money I was so happy I ran back to the house and showed my mom and my sister man we had a lot of fun with that money haha i'll tell you a good story also when I was living on junction and toledo there was a railroad track going down junction toward michigan avenue alright and theresa catholic school on the left hand side I forget the name of it and there's the railroad tracks before the school now man those railroad tracks we used to hit that sucker all the time and there used to be so much stuff coming off the railroads tracks died they supplied the whole neighborhood all of southwest detroit I aint lying we used to have good christmases we used to hit that sucker all the time we used to get shot out with salt rocks salt haha a lot of guys got hit I got hit in head a couple times but they used to chase off the railroad tracks with rock salt. What I mean by good shit I mean merchandise nor drugs we got tvs vcrs ya know back then the tvs was the big box tvs they weren't light suckers so if you get 4 or 5 tvs you doing good and the vcrs was huge big boxes ya know this is when they first came out so your family will be eating for a couple of weeks we used to get clothes out of there diapers all kinds of stuff ya know whatever they were transporting to the stores around there we got a lot of toys all kinds of stuff off them trucks Alivia: Would you say a lot of people did that? Murdock: Oh yea everybody in the neighborhood did haha pretty much everybody in the neighborhood if you was my age 14 15 16 17 at that time um yea we hit the railroad tracks when we times were hard even when the times wasn't hard haha ya know so Alivia: Was there any other stories you'd like to share? Murdock: Ya um look up when the world series baseball series was in the 80s what was the questions again? Alivia: Stories Murdock: I just remember a good story about the detroit tigers playing in the world series in 84 yea man (Inaudible) Um back to saying the detroit tigers played in the world series in 84 talking about crazy i lived right down on trumble and temple there was a party store (inaudible) union teamsters on the other corner cab stand driver across the street from tigers stadium (inaudible) Lumber store next to that we had (inaudible) it was so crazy that people were swinging off the street lights setting places on fire we was in the neighborhood ripping people off haha robbing people and shit haha we had a lot of fun then I lived in a uh house rihht on cocken and temple across from the tiger village party store and it was a white house on cocken that's where I lived during the world series that was crazy man (inaudible) I ain't even joking you it was nuts Alivia: What would you say the situation with the police was? Murdock: Back then in my time police situation huh (inaudible) police response in my neighborhood police presence in my neighborhood um I don't know there was a presence and there wasn't a presence ya know I mean uh they was there but at the same time they wasn't there ya know the police in my neighborhood was pretty cool we knew them and they knew us ya know they know who did what ya know you weren't getting away with too much they didn't know I mean you could get away with it but they'd know about it. You couldn't really couldn't count on the police for nothing they weren't there unless they wanted to be there so if you was doing wrong in the neighborhood and you was benefiting from it and the police wasn't around then you was taking care of them ya know what I mean they was getting there pockets greased that's just the way it was around ther drug dealers i mean drug houses they was up and running and they was cranking police presence they was only there when they had to be there cause there pockets were lined they were paid off for everything back then youre talking about the 80s haha 80s was when crack cocaine heroin was one of the worst epidemics that you could think of ya know every way not just detroit michigan LA chicago new york boston everywhere it was crazy you know so um haha in my neighborhood it was off the charts because it was small um and there was a lot of drugs because it was detroit ya know the city I grew up in the city in detroit big so police man so the only time they was gonna fuck with you was when you wasn't fucking taking care of them or the motherfucking commander was coming down on there ass to pop somebody so that about the police ya know um there was a couple incident where ya know people for there ass beat up by the police but the only reason that happened was because they had to so if you was making too much money and making an asss out of yourself in detroit the mayor used to take care of cause that's mayor coleman young i don't know about young or not but thats none of the most corrupt motherfucking majors in any city anywhere I mean he had detroit on lock down I mean that man was the man everybody was working ya know (inaudible) it was happening back then a lot of drugs coming in thanks to the major haha ya know he had white boy rick and everybody sold up ya know um the black mafia irish mafia ya me I mean I'm part of the irish mafia in the street gangs ya know coleman young had everybody kill patrick ya know (inaudible) kill patric ya know i'll tell ya one thing about kill patrick everybody was working when he was in office everybody was working everybody had a job when kilpatrick was in office and you was making a lot of money because he was making a lot of money thats why hes sitting in prison right now hahaha Alivia: What makes your neighborhood unique Murdock: The culture of it a lot of uh mexicans latinos lot of arabs calidians um muslims jewish people uh irish um black ya know the culture the big different ya know part of everybody's back ground all brought into one area ya know that's what made my neighborhood unique is the culture the background of it all. Alivia: How do you think the crack epidemic affected detroit? Murdock: Ooh that's good one crack epidemic it got detroit by the balls I would say haha um crack epidemic it crippled detroit literally I mean everybody was addicted I'm not just talking about neighborhood people i'm talking about people who are big time like a lot of the um politicians a lot of office people ya know business people ya know everybody was getting high back in the 80s people who you thought wasn't getting they was getting high they was sitting up in the place either smoking crack sniffing heroin shooting heroin sniffing cocaine all of it ya know back in the 80s that's when it came out ya know the 80s man it put a toll on just about every city in all the states I would say it crippled detroit I know that but were coming back doing good now ya know. Alivia: uh How do you think it affected you personally? Murdock: Um me personally it affected me like I said I have 7 in my family i'm the youngest of 7 I got 6 siblings so I've seen my sisters and brothers go through different changes and motions and uh using this and using this and drugs it's always been in my house its always been around I didn't use drugs when I was a teenager when I was growing up the people I hung out with it was pretty much forbidden because of what we was into we was dealing drugs so it was the organization if you got caught using drugs recraintional you got dealt with and it wasn't good ya know so it was always in the front door ya know I was always putting money in my pocket ya know (inaudible) so it affected me because i went to prison because of it i did 5 years because of drugs ya know so it changed me when I was young and it made me become a man because I went into the joint and got out it changed my life I had kids so Alivia: How bad was crime in your neighborhood? Murdock: Crime was worse you used to find people dead all the time in my neighborhood I ain't even joking find people dead find people in there car beat up in there car find people shot find people thrown out of windows find people in garbage kids found people under the bridge on the bridge tiger stadium bridge that went over 75 to the tiger stadium I dont think its there anymore but they used to find people on top of that motherfucker people hung off of it I aint even joking Alivia: Did it ever get worse or better? Murdock: Oh yea it got worse and it got better I mean when I was down there it was probably at the worst and through the years it gotten a lot better right now it's awesome I don't think you can find too many cops down there busting people for stuff they used to bust people for ya know Alivia: How did gangs affect your neighborhood? Murdock: it affected my neighborhood in a big way cause i ended up joining in a gang when I was 13 about to be 14 I joined a gang and when i was 14 I went to chicago and I got what they called G’d in into the organization for all the gangster disciples and um me and a couple of my buddies went down there and we all got jumped in G’d into the organization we stayed down there for about a year and a half i was 16 years old and we came back and we had our organization with us so uh we um started a possy down there called the young guns cash flows we was folks so we wore blue and black 6 point star ya know. It was fun back then ya know it was the shit ya know made so much money it was crazy. You grow up and you grow out of that stuff and you change lifes when you have kids your whole persona changes your whole life perspective changes everything you do and uh everything you wanna do has to mean because you have another human life that's looking on you solely because you're that persons provider your the only thing in this world that baby has so that changes your whole perspective of everything and it did mine and i'm glad it did because I have three beautiful kids ya know. Alivia: Is there any else you'd like to add? Murdock: Um yes um I'd like to add um my neighborhood was the best I think that um I grew up in a very well respected well trusted well driven well given neighborhood ya know my neighborhood was the bomb ya know and if I could raise my kids down there i would raise my kids down if i could have I would've ya know if I could go down there and buy a house right and live in that area if I had the money I would buy a house down there and stay there the rest of my life I love it down there my neighborhood was the bomb and I would go back there and live there in a heartbeat so ya know. Alivia: Thank you.
“Robert Murdock,” Detroit Historical Society Oral History Archive, accessed April 13, 2021, https://detroit1967.detroithistorical.org/items/show/716.