Emmanuel Smith, August 8th, 2022

Emmanuel Smith, August 8th, 2022

In this interview, Emmanuel Smith talks about his life and the formation of his business, Mr. E in the D

Detroit Historical Society

Detroit Historical Society

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Emmanuel Smith

Emmanuel Smith is a Detroit-born educator known as Mr. E. He shares the story of how he found his passion to teach others through music and visual engagement.

Detroit, MI

8/8/2022

1:03:45

Taylor Claybrook

Lily Chen: All right. You're good to go. Good to go.

Billy Wall-Winkel: Such a creaky door.

Lily Chen: First one. I'm going to be okay. Thank you, Billy. Okay. This is fun. Okay. So. Hi, everyone. Welcome. This is the Hustle Project. Today is Monday. What is it? August eight.

Emmanuel Smith: Eight.

Lily Chen: August eight. It's about 2:00 pm and we are so excited to be doing another interview. Welcome and congratulations on your nomination. Thank you. Tell us your name and can you spell it out for us?

Emmanuel Smith: Sure. Emmanuel. Emmanuel Smith, also known as Mr. E.

Lily Chen: Mr. E awesome. And that's your business?

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lily Chen: Yeah, yeah. And what pronouns do you use?

Emmanuel Smith: He/him.

Lily Chen: Okay. Awesome. All right, so before we get into anything about your business, tell me about, you know, where you're from and what it was like growing up.

Emmanuel Smith: Cool. If at any point I drag just...

Lily Chen: Yeah, I know. I'd love to hear.

Emmanuel Smith: I can be a talker at times. So I grew up. Oh.

Lily Chen: No, you're good.

Emmanuel Smith: Okay. Born at Henry Ford hospital. The first, I believe maybe eight years of my life was in Inkster, Michigan. A lot of fun times out there, a lot of bike riding and just fun stuff. That kind of...I think the seeds were planted in to like what I'm doing now, like all the vintages PBS and all that stuff that happened. Inkster Then we moved over to Detroit and it was just pretty much in de Trois for a long time. I had a small stint when I moved to Ann Arbor, which was... Kind of a shock. Yeah. Especially like the school I it was high school, okay. My freshman year. So I went from Murray Wright to Huron High School. Okay. And it was like, Oh, wow. Huh.

Lily Chen: Lots of white people.

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was everybody, you know, because all the kids...well not all but a lot of heir parents were at U of M. Well, yeah. So there was something for everybody. So it was dope. It was a nice experience then. And I moved for three years to out of all places, Tulsa, Oklahoma. So it was almost like before I was college age. I did a lot of traveling and. Yeah. Had a lot of experiences.

Lily Chen: Cool. Okay. And what year were you born?

Emmanuel Smith: Oh, it's a mystery.

Lily Chen: Okay.

Emmanuel Smith: 1980.

Lily Chen: Okay. My parents also have no idea what year they were born.

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah, I tell my kids I'm 97 every year.

Lily Chen: That's excellent. Okay, and so let's get into your actual business. So give me your elevator pitch version.

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah. So which one? So, like, my elevator pitch is the movement. Like we are the leaders of the new school. And the whole premise of everything that we do is to engage, excite and empower scholars and their families to be lifelong learners, and that's to educate me, so. Oh, yeah, that's amazing.

Lily Chen: Thank you. Yeah. All right. So obviously, there's so much that goes into making a business and behind that elevator pitch. So we're going to get into, like, the nitty gritty and you're going to tell me all the ups and downs. So getting started, tell me all about it. Like, how did you come up with the name of your business and what's the full name of your business? And, and what was it like.

Emmanuel Smith: Full name of the business. Mr. E in the D um, how it started. Well, how my name started. It was through the Northwestern YMCA, which used to be on Seven Mile, and as each Detroit is called last year. Not lost last year. Yeah. That's where I had like a big experience working with my community. Right before that it was the Boys and Girls Choir of Detroit, which was a like pilot program that we were the owner was try to...Pay homage to the Boys Choir of Harlem. So I work there, and that's kind of where the mystery kind of. I didn't want to go by Mr. Smith. because it sounded too formal. Okay. And I didn't necessarily want it to, like, go by Mr. Emmanuel, because it's like four syllables and my first name sources in Mr. E. And from there, I worked there for a few years and then went to the YMCA. And that's just where the whole my whole kind of, I guess, character kind of grew. My character is me, though, you know? Oh. Just from doing day camps after school programs, pretty much anything at that YMCA are pretty much work that we were like a tight knit community, teen nights, all that stuff. So it really broke my heart when they closed. But that was like a transition to working with other YMCA was kind of brought me back to that YMCA doing an aftercare because the YMCA had opened a school right behind that YMCA and at the time it was called Detroit...YMCA Service Learning Academy, which is now Detroit Service Learning Academy. And I'm just working there. I moved over to you prep because I was doing a before and after care with. With their school and I got a chance to start subbing my wife, which was my friend at the time. We met at the YMCA, too. So we kind of just kind of traveled along our path of professions. So when I was working, doing before and After Care, she was doing her student teaching at that YMCA up at U Prep, and she was like, Yo, you know, you can make $110 a day subbing. And I was like, What? How many credits? What? You know? So I started working there. A lot of my kids that I taught I really had interactions with during day camp and after school programs. So. I'm blessed because I didn't have to try to find a formalized way to interact with them, and relationships were already there and it was kind of out of the box. So that's where Mr. E came from. The concept was started. The whole movement was my math mixtape. I was in a class, I believe I was subbing for a third grade class and they were doing like the math. It was the math work, like the timed worksheets. And, um, they were it was a few of them. They were struggling on their threes. And this was around the era of that...And all the mixtapes that were dropping on Drake in particular. This was like his, the height of his season Lil Wayne and all that. So I was it was just kind of it kind of just popped into my head like. I should do a math mixtape. Like Out of Nowhere, though, I've always heavily been into music. Also always been recording my family's musical family. So music has always been like a strong foundation for me. And I was just like, I should do something. I should do a math mixtape. I don't know if it's just the words kind of they bounce off of each other real good. I have no idea. But I was like, I'ma do it and Drake song... I can't even remember the real name with a real song. But the chorus was [humming] And then I was like. I didn't do my math and I never even recorded that song. But that was like the foundation of like the whole math mix tape. And I did the math mix tape and went from song to song. I was just going to do like. Two's to like five or something like that. But as I started to record and I was just so excited, so every time I got a mixed bag, I would let the kids here.

Billy Wall-Winkel: And it is as sweet as sweet.

Emmanuel Smith: So I went from that to like going to from the fives and I got up to ten and then I was like, I had them stop at 13, but the ideas just kept coming, you know, and I just kept hearing these instrumentals. So I eventually stopped at 15 and then we were like, Okay, I don't think anybody's going to be doing any trying to memorize any multiples over 50. So that's kind of what got the. The business going. I wasn't thinking about doing a business. I just wanted to put some music out for the kids to give them another perspective of, like, learning. You know, actually, my mother did the same thing with me when I was trying to learn my threes just kind of full circle. I was playing a trumpet, and she always, like, recorded little songs. They came to her and she was like, You should make up a song about two threes. And I was like, All right, cool. And I made up this song. My sister was on her violin, and we made, like, this home version of my song. And I guess it was just reproducing that, but on a larger scale.

Lily Chen: Wow. It's so fun to see the, like, ways that your younger self manifests.

Billy Wall-Winkel: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lily Chen: Yeah. So. Okay, so let me make sure I have this right. So you started at the Y. Which Y was it?

Emmanuel Smith: Northwestern.

Lily Chen: And eventually it closed. Yeah. And then you were at different Ys after that?

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah. After that it was South Oakland and Royal Oak and Farmington. Okay. And then we kind of do like this partner thing with Bolls with an after school program that I was working in.

Lily Chen: Okay. And were you you were mostly doing after school work? In the beginning, mostly.

Emmanuel Smith: Well, a transition real quick.

Lily Chen: Okay.

Emmanuel Smith: So it went from afterschool programs to day camps. And day camps always have been like I don't know, like I had an opportunity to go like to diabetic camps back in the day. So I just like outdoor stuff and like running around and I've always been a kid at heart, so being able to do day camps was just like a no brainer. It wasn't work to me. It was just like, I'm having fun and I'm getting paid to have fun. So, yeah, so I had an opportunity to do that at all three or four Y's.

Lily Chen: Yeah.

Emmanuel Smith: YMCA.

Lily Chen: When. When did you first get started? At the first Y.

Emmanuel Smith: That was. Early 2000, I would say 2000...When was the blackout?

Lily Chen: I don't. I don't remember.

Emmanuel Smith: So the blackout, it was like maybe a year or two before the blackout in Detroit.

Lily Chen: Okay. Okay.

Emmanuel Smith: And it was 2000 I started.

Lily Chen: Okay. And prior to that, did you have, like, experience that kind of had already prepped you for being at the Y.

Emmanuel Smith: The boys choir, Detroit Boys and Girls Choir. Detroit. I did that. Shout out to Anthony White, the UIC. We worked there. And then before that, it was just. Like being a mentor at my church, you know, like doing like kids, like youth stuff there. But, no, not really.

Lily Chen: Okay. And growing up, did you always want to work with kids?

Emmanuel Smith: So. I've been thinking about that. Yeah. And I think I kind of did, but it was like. It was almost like a. Like Rage Against the Machine, if this makes sense. So I was diagnosed as diabetic 88 Christmas break. I spent two weeks in the hospital and back in the late eighties. It wasn't a graceful talk to patients about, you know, being a diabetic and like what you have to eat was like, look, you've got to take these shots. You got to or you're going to die like, oh, eight years old. What are you talking about? You're going to go blind, you know? And I think it was more so like kind of old school like scare you into doing right, you know. And once again, this is my eight year old self. So they maybe didn't say it like that, but that's what I took in. It was like fear tactics all day. Yeah. And. I kind of vow to myself like I'm going to be an endocrinologist for children because...This experience was horrible. You know, now I had a I had, you know, some some rays of sunshine in like like I said, some of the doctors, they referred me to go to the diabetic camps. But it was just like from on site, it was like a scary experience. The highlight of the whole experience was that Children's Hospital, they had cable. So I was able to watch Disney Channel, though. That was like it, you know, and I was able to order food outside of that. It was just like it was scary for for me being a child. So I was like, Man, I'm a I'm going to make this a fun thing. And I'm still kind of working on how I can do that. But yeah, that was. Kind of my first initial thoughts of working with children.

Lily Chen: Yeah, that. Thank you so much for sharing that. Oh, no problem. That's, um. I can't even imagine what that would have been like back then for them. Man, they did some crazy things in hospitals back then. Yeah, yeah, they still do.

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah, yeah, they do. They do. Its that the delivery that's sort..the delivery is is I believe it's better now, but it was because it was like everything was happening so quick. Like I went to the doctor to get a blood test and then from there it was like, we're admitting you. Then they brought me into this room and my parents were shocked. Then it was like, Look, you know this and this and diabetes causes this and this. And I'm just sitting here looking, I'm looking at my parents expressions, I'm looking at the doctors. And it was almost like the movie. Is it Matilda? Mm. The principal that was like swinging the kids pigtails and stuff like that was the experience. So yeah.

Lily Chen: Yeah. Well, it's amazing that it's it's kind of come full circle and now you're giving that energy, this all this positive energy back to kids so that they don't have to be afraid. Yeah. You know, especially with things like multiplication tables, it's terrifying.

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah, yeah. For sure. For sure. You know, and even like with my role as being a dean, you know, like the dean historically has been like a scary kind of title, like suspension, going home. You're in trouble. And I try to, you know, with my role and and the district that I work for you prep like our whole goal is to like. Debunk that whole thing. Like now we're really about restoring. We're all about relationships. We're all about like making this the best experience that you can have while you are in our school, you know, so that you can take was given and like remix it and make it even better actually. So that's now that I think, yeah, that's like the whole thing because I purposefully wanted to work in elementary school so like they can have these experiences. So when they get older, you know, we take, you know, we go through our we have our fifth grade is a lot of time, a lot of funky fifth grade, you know. But as long as those C's are there, you know, they they sprout, you know? And I just pray that the kids that I interact with, you know that good. You know, I remember when Mr. E said this. Mr. E was crazy. He was always loud that...The you know, that it it helps them to be their true self in any situation.

Lily Chen: Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. So help me trace the history. So because now you're, I mean, successful and you're a dean and everything. So through the years, from the 2000 to now, how did that come to be?

Emmanuel Smith: So, um.

Lily Chen: I know you were at the Ys.

Emmanuel Smith: I'm at the Y, yeah, I met my wife. We got married. 2009. And around that time. Like she she she's always been, like, the best supporter, you know, like. Like you just saying that because you're my wife. You just saying that because. Because we were always tight, like real close friends. So I'm like, can I really take it? Like, Are you being for real? And she's like, No. Like, you need to really take this to the next level. And I would be like I always envisioned like to be able to recreate vintage PBS, you know, like the stuff that really impacted me. And it wasn't just the show. It was like everything about it. The sounds like with me being like a sound like though since, you know, the bands, the guitars, you know, like the letter people back in the day. Oh, man, are you hip to the letter people. Oh, go on. You too. Right. So the letter people, it was like. It was like early. Early educate. So you have like Schoolhouse Rock. But the letter people were like the younger version of Schoolhouse Rock. Okay. So the, the production value of the music banana's like they weren't just trying to make like. The letter M. You know, it was like, Ah, Mr. M. With a mighty mouse.

Emmanuel Smith: Well, it was like so when I was listening to like we were vibing to it like, oh yeah. And they had like songs for all of the letters and the sounds that it was just, it was dope. It wasn't like anything you could tell somebody put their soul into the music. And we were just so into the music is timeless. So I could still vibe out, let my kids hear it, and they still have, like, a reaction, like, Oh, shoot, this is sweet, you know? Oh, I'm so just like that. Oh, Schoolhouse Rock, vintage PBS. It was like I always wanted to contribute the way that they contributed and had an impact on my life. So I did the music and in creating the music, in my mind, it was always like, These can be slots for shows like, Oh yeah, in my mind, I'm like talking to people like I'm not the hip hop guy. I'm not just a music guy. You don't know that these are just slots for a show, you know, or as when they said they first started Sesame Street like commercials. Right? So I'm like, okay, we can do this right here. And I've always made my songs multifaceted where it could be a going to a playground song, but then I'll put the learning, you know, in as like the hook sort of verses would be like, I'm going or I'm looking at the clouds and I'm making pictures, and then the chorus would be the learning part. So I always did that kind of intentionally. So I was like, Well, you know, I'll just see where it goes, you know, as long as the kids that I'm interacting with, they hear it, they can use it. The parents come back and say, is cool, cool. But people kept coming to me like, You should do this on a larger set scale. And I'm like, I'm not really trying to do that. I just really I just like making music and I like kids to be able to be excited about learning, you know?

Lily Chen: And what year was that? First, the, the threes, the multiplication tables song.

Emmanuel Smith: That was 14, 15, I believe.

Lily Chen: Okay. And that was at the time the scale was just the kids that you were teaching and working with.

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah.

Lily Chen: Yeah. And then it grew all the way to 15.

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah. And we were like, okay, let's do this on a let's make it look sweet. So we did the album artwork and was like, Let's just see where it goes. And we got some local attention from Black magazine because I was like, nobody knows about. This is not like a huge market for what I'm trying to do. You know, I want it to sound and look a certain way. I didn't want it. I don't want to say dumb it down because there's a lot of dope music that's doing it on a different scale. On the scale that I was doing it at, like nobody was really doing it. I didn't know how to market it to people. I will put it on people, you know, my social media is or I'll put it out there on YouTube, but people weren't necessarily searching for what I was doing at the time, so I'll just do it, you know? And. It grew. Black magazine saw it because I think I was doing like 50 messages night just to get it out there because nobody knew what I was doing. And Black Magazine was the only person that. Responded.

Lily Chen: Wow.

Emmanuel Smith: And I, I sent out hundreds of like, Hey, Mr. E, you know, check me out. This is what I'm doing. They're the only ones that responded. So much respect to Black magazine. And, um, once they responded and they did a piece in a magazine, I felt like one that I want to Oscar or Grammy or something. And, um, but once they did that, then that's when the Michigan State site interview. It came from there, you know, and then the who was it? It was Metro Parent magazine. And I you know, so it started to build, you know? Yeah. So from there, from the, um. The NPR. Michigan State side, Joe, he works for the city, Detroit, the media services team. He heard the interview and he heard what I was talking about, like vintage PBS and stuff like that, really. And he was like, Yeah, we got to do something on him. And from there, I kind of pitched like what I really wanted to do and it aligned so much with what they were thinking. That was like, Oh, like, what if this was like a Mister Rogers off Dexter Boulevard? You know, if Mister Rogers was from Detroit, what would it look and sound like, you know? And they were like, Yes, let's do this. Yeah. But they never did a children's show or like a show to the production value with the green screen animation and all that. But they were like, Yo, we're going to figure this out. We're going to win an Emmy off of this. I was like an emmy, what are you talking about? Um, but just to see the connection and, like, them really attached or understanding the importance of putting out good high quality content for children in the city of Detroit. I just love that, you know, because that that's that's like my goal. Like, let's give it to the kids, just give it to the families. And then on top of that, what I heard and I've yappy. Okay. All right. Oh. The parents. And the kids. Their response to the show was like. I can see myself in the show. I never seen a kids show with all black cast. I never seen the lead be or just like a black male that wasn't gimmicky. Like we didn't have any gimmicky kids. I was like, Yo, I'm the rapper, you know? Like, it wasn't any of that. It was just like, it's just real people, you know? And that was the goal. Like, no gimmicks. No. He's the bad boy. He's the rapper. That's the breakdancer. Like, now we're just kids, we're humans, you know? And we go through this experience of life and we want to be able just to talk about what kids are experiencing and bring it into some imagination.

Lily Chen: Yeah, well, it's it's amazing to see I mean, the footage of your show, it's like it's like, wow. Like, we there's such a diversity out there that we have not seen. It's so good that we're finally seeing it. Thank you. You know what I mean? Yeah. To see people of color on TV. Yeah, I'm, you know, I never saw people that look like me, so.

Emmanuel Smith: I mean, oh, it was amazing to me just going off of what you said. Like, I didn't notice it until I was a little older, but like the electronic connection back in the day, like Morgan Freeman was heavy into like the electronic connecting, like one of the original cast members. And to see what he did and like what I'm doing, like it was basically like the same thing, you know, like he was a city guy, wasn't like he came in and like, okay, we're going to learn, you know, these principles of mathematics and reading. He was like. You know what's going on. You know.

Emmanuel Smith: It wasn't it wasn't gimmicky. It was just real, you know? And it was just like from the dress to the top to the walk, like everything. It was just 100% real. And I just I just really appreciate that. Like, then you see people like Gordon and LeVar Burton. It was few and far between, but as a kid of color, I really stuck to those people, even like Mr. T, like in my in my, on my math mix tape, my site where mix tape, my interludes are as Mr. E, but you know, Mr. T voice, you know, and it's just like those silly things that he did with a long that he always had like a what was it? The need to know.

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah, I think his need to know. But he had like those pieces at the end of his cartoon, like where it was in a mister t way you like. Sometimes you may run up on a sucker and he's trying to talk about your momma, but you make sure that you think before you punch him. In the face or something like that. But it was always just like, you know, it was sending a message, but it was in his own unique way, you know, and that really spoke volumes to me. So, yeah, like you said, I just really want to be able to open up the floor, you know, for more people to say, Yo, he did that on this scale. I might take this and do it on this scale, you know, so that more kids can see, you know. Yeah.

Lily Chen: So 2014, 2015 ish, you have things starting to kind of blow up. Yeah. And get and get real. Yeah. And then trace that journey for the next ten years you're getting. Now you're on TV. Yeah. And remind me. So what channel is that?

Emmanuel Smith: Think it was channel 22. Okay. Um, it was the city's cable channel.

Lily Chen: Okay.

Emmanuel Smith: Think it was channel 22.

Lily Chen: And what year was that that first spot.

Emmanuel Smith: 20. 2018, 2019, I believe.

Lily Chen: Okay, so now you have your like you have a show.

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah. Mind blowing?

Lily Chen: Yeah. And. And it's still going.

Emmanuel Smith: Yes.

Lily Chen: So over that journey of having that show any like huge lessons that you've learned or things that have changed you.

Emmanuel Smith: The lessons. The lesson that I learned is like when you if you have something that's authentic, you know, you got to kind of. You got to follow like the germination process. So I like to seed planning process because it's like. Especially with creatives like I'm a creative at heart, like to the foundation of my DNA and I'm like a large thinker, you know? So it's like I'm thinking I'm about to do it, okay, where's the product? Where's the result? And it was really like understanding that the result or the outcome you may not see in the timing that you feel it should happen, but don't give up. And it's not about always. I had to keep reminding myself. It's like, especially in like social media times, it's like you're constantly fighting. Yourself or. Or constantly reminding yourself not to fall into. The pit of instant gratification of success. And it's like, remember what you're doing this for it's not for is not to go viral, is not to to get a bunch of awards. It's for your community. And that's what that's what kept me going. It's like, okay. I got ten people that viewed it, you know?

Lily Chen: Yeah.

Emmanuel Smith: Five people that liked it. Those are five people that really are invested in what I'm doing. Cool. Yeah. Some kids, when I play my music, they're gigging with the music. Cool. I had a parent say that. Hey, me listening to the math mix tape with my grandson helped me learn my eight. Cool. You know, it's like the small successes are big, you know? And I had to really learn. It's almost like reverse thinking. Like, it's not always the big things, the small things and really appreciate the small things. And that's what I had to learn. Like patience. Stick to what you believe in and don't give up like. Don't give up. And I really learned that during the quarantine.

Lily Chen: Yeah.

Emmanuel Smith: During the quarantine, I couldn't go to the studio anymore. I couldn't get music like that. So I had to like, okay, what are you going to do? Are you just going to let this whole thing die or you just who knows how long we're going to be in the house? But now you're in the house and you're working virtually. You have like a different kind of time that you didn't have before. So you need to work. You know, you said that you needed more time. So it's like when. When these spaces, when God allows things to happen, like move, you know, and like take advantage, seize the moment. And I just learning like, it doesn't have to be perfect. That's what I had to learn. It doesn't have to be perfect. Doesn't have to sound or look perfect. You know, the the the product will speak for itself. And I learned that. Ooh, I learned that. Yes. It doesn't have to be perfect. So, like, when I was figuring out Garage Band and like how to I didn't know how to do ProTools or Logic or anything, but I had a garage band, you know, so I'm like, okay, let me see. I'm never really produce. I played instruments, but I never produced, you know, music like that on a computer. But let's just try, you know, see what comes from it. And, oh, I can do it, you know? But if I didn't try, I would have never known that I could do it. I could record. I could. I don't know. Semi makes a master but is good enough for people to hear, you know. And yeah. Don't give up.

Lily Chen: Yeah. Those are, I mean, some crucial and amazing lessons for anyone, for new business owners, for people pursuing a dream. Yeah. You know, so looking forward, um, you know, if there's, if there's something that you could come true, you know, like a wish that you can make come true for your business. What would that be.

Emmanuel Smith: So, my wife, she's a patient lady, right? So this is going somewhere. So during our spring breaks, we're both educators, right? So she she just got a job becoming a principal at Maybury Elementary Southwestern. Right. You know, so, like, our vacations align, so spring break, we always go up to Traverse City to just kind of like charge. You know, we get a babysitter for the kids or we get a babysitter and we just go up there and everything is kind of thawing out. It's real slow off season and a lot of times, like, she'll just be sitting back. And she'll watch me watch like documentaries on like Jim Henson and like the start of like his production company and Sesame Workshop. And the one thing that always stood out to me is like how, Jim it was like Muppets, you know, nobody was doing that, you know? But he went from doing the commercials to having a whole production company to like movies. But it just started with him saying, Okay, I'm gonna take this to the next level, okay? I'm puppeteering. Okay, cool. I got that under my belt. But it's not just the marionettes. It's not just these type of puppets that, you know, you can't manipulate. You know, I need to create something. And if I could envision, like, a wish, it would be to have, like, a Mister E production house. That would partner like the production house would be in side of some type of not some type. I got it in my head a community center because like that's what impacted me. I saw how it impacted others, the community center, where it's like a real community center, not like a a planet fitness, like a community center where kids can come in, you know, get what they need, get the sports families can come in, get what they need, assistance, whatever. But it's like a hub, a safe haven in a community. And, um, it'll be all in one type of thing, you know, where they can get the sports, but they could also get the arts enrichment, they could work, have hands on, on Mr. E Show, you know, they could produce music for the show. They can produce music for themselves. They could create their own content, you know, that could help. Like I would be very intentional. Like you can create content, but like what can you create that can help a younger learner or a peer really engage in, you know, math or history or science, you know, but put your own spin on it. Like if you were teaching this content, how would you teach it? The world is yours. You don't have to go down a script like this is your hit these points, but do it the way you want to do it. Let it sound the way you want to sound. So that's what. The community center with a production house, and that would house like the other educators, too, and the forward thinkers, the innovators, the leaders of the new school.

Lily Chen: Wow. That would be I mean, that's amazing. And it's cool because you can kind of see that your earlier history, right? Yeah. Through the Y. Yeah. Through the boys choir really impacts the way that you see how change needs to be created in our city.

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I actually think it's great. I'm working on a day camp.

Lily Chen: Okay.

Emmanuel Smith: Mr. E explores inner city outer limits. And the whole thing is to get kids. Because a lot of times. When I was a kid he aunts and uncles would complain about like yall do this. Well, we used to do this and we used to do it. And it's like now my age group have become like those complaint. I'm like, Yo, let's just give them opportunity. Let's give them resources, not complain about what... They just want on phones all day. And that if I could just get them to look up, let's give them something to do. Let's just not complain about it.

Emmanuel Smith: So I would just love to. And what I'm working on is a summer day count if I could get it on the island, if I get it at Belle Isle. Perfect because there's so much nature, so much space, I see eagles and blue herons and all that, you know, I see it all. But a lot of times the kids that I work with or kids in my community, family, they know it, they know Belle isle. But it's for a, you know, family reunions. But I want to really like, yo know, do you know that island, though, you know, and be able to do a summer day camp, you know, and give kids an opportunity to get sweaty, to stink, to be have so much fun that when they get into the car, like the moniker is like don't wear anything sweet. And when they get in the car to sleep.

Lily Chen: Mm. Amazing. Yes. It sounds like your wife has played. I mean, obviously a huge, huge path. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about her.

Emmanuel Smith: So if anyone ever needs encouragement that comes from a heartfelt place, talk to Leticia. She. She is. I wouldn't be say support like she. Is like a found foundational to what I do. I'm good at. I'm good at encouraging other people, but not the best at encouraging myself. You feel me? So it's like. Especially as educators, you know, that's what we do all day, you know, especially if you're like in it, you know, like you're encouraging other people. You're encouraging kids like these kids. They are what's to come? You know, so it's very important, like if you are in it, to make sure that they see it within themselves, why you have this small time of life to live alongside of them, like you got to see that you are great, you know? And I hope to inspire I hope to ignite the greatness that's already inside of them, you know, cause it's already there. I just need to help ignited a little bit so that you can see it and go forward. So, like, when your your days are encouraging and uplifting and restoring issues or helping to fix issues is like that when it comes down to self, you know, sometimes is not the easiest. I know I can speak for myself. It's not the easiest for me to see the best. Like I can see what I can improve on all day, but to see what I'm doing good at like I need reminders and I won't say that was she sees that in me in like our date night conversations are like. Innovator TED talks. You know, it's like we're just bouncing ideas, but is because we're both so passionate about this work that it's not like we're talking about work, but it's like, how can we inspire? And we talk about, you know, these instances with kids or like if we could create this utopian environment of where schools can be and they camps can be in. The show, she's like, No, you can do this show. And did you see that show? Oh, no, you can do this. Did you hear that song? No. You can do this. And it's like I can't do this. Like, yeah. Did you hear that? Like, no shade to them, but when you do it..

Emmanuel Smith: It just takes the right just way. When the right person hears it, it's going to blow up. But this I'm not even really worried about is gonna blow up. Oh, like Tish. And then on top of that. She's just like a great wife, mother, educator. Like, that's what we. We live, breathe like this thing. You know how some people some people feel like if you're in grade in a profession, that it happens and then it's turned off when you leave that profession. But it's like we literally like we live it, you know, and the same practices that you see us doing with kids in our schools, the stuff that we feel works, we bring it into our family, you know, and we're not perfect. But man, we work hard to make sure that our kids have experiences, that they see us flourishing, that we have communication with them as they're transitioning with life, that we balance our careers so that we can give them just as much as we give everyone else, you know? So she's just like the greatest balance that I could have, you know? And we started from the moment, like we both started at, you know, the YMCA and um, we both just continue to grow in service in our community. And that's what it's about. We get, we both get really angry when we see people trying to like, take advantage or not see the best in the kids or families in our don't if you want to get us going like we're peaceful people but don't don't. Don't treat us like we're not worth anything or don't treat these kids like they don't deserve it. Don't give them half resources like they deserve more. You know what I'm saying? Like, so if we want to give them something, let's not wait until it's like, okay, now, not less. Let's frontload things that everybody else gets. Let's give it to them, too. You feel me? Because it's just right. You know? And we got to really think. A lot of people are doing better at it, but it's just doing right by people, you know? Like I say, I can ramble.

Lily Chen: No, it's not ramble. This is about resilience. In the face of oppression. It's something that's so cool about your story that, you know, is the same for a lot of people of color, is that the. The fight is always there. It's not like you go to work and then...

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lily Chen: And then you go home and you're a dad. Right. It's like everything you do is trying to live and flourish in this world and give other people of opportunity to do that, too. Yeah. And it's beautiful to see that your wife, too, is such an important part of that story. Because we don't separate.

Emmanuel Smith: No.

Lily Chen: People that we love. They're part of they're part of that journey all day.

Emmanuel Smith: You know. And a cool thing about it, I have a lot of artists, friends who are friends of friends. You know, as sometimes with innovators, with artists, there tends to be a competition between art and sports, you know, where it's like, I spend so much time, you already work and then you spending time doing I'll, I'll never see you. And it becomes like, almost like, like cheating, you know. But she has always been like, Yo, Thursdays is your studio night. Why are you here? Go to. You know. She's seen the importance of me having time to create. She's like, when you create stuff like you're in a better mood anyway. You know what I'm saying? Cause, like, I'm on, like, a utopian high.

Billy Wall-Winkel: Like, did you hear this song?

Emmanuel Smith: It it'll be a song about, I don't know, pizza or about, like, numbers, and I'm so excited about it. And she'll look at me. She's like, This song is sweet, you know? Can I go back to sleep now? You know? So, um. Yeah, I can't see myself doing living and being me with any of that because I would drive him crazy.

Lily Chen: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she believes in the world that you want to create.

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah. Yeah. You know. Yeah. She sees it. You know, I don't have to overexplain like she sees it.

Lily Chen: Yeah, it's amazing. Well, okay, let's see. I think that you've answered so many of the questions, which is great. Um, anything that I didn't ask you about that you want to tell me about.

Emmanuel Smith: I think it's...I hit on it at the end of the day. I like my legacy. I just want it to be that. I was somebody who authentically cared. Um. And. Someone who was authentic with light. In a seize the moment. And working with kids. You see how fast time goals man it flies is like it's like.. Like the kids are in, like, some type of multiverse and they pop back in is like, yo. When did you get a beard? Like you were just saying you had to go to the bathroom.

Emmanuel Smith: Like, what is happening? And it's like you see the importance of time and seizing the moment and just creating, like, small moments. Like I'm a big, huge believer in quality over quantity, you know, or quantity. Quantity. No. No, no. No, no. Quality. Quality time. Quality time. Yeah. Quality time is super important. And. My secret sauce with working with with students and adults is like. Allowing them to be seen. Yo, who did your edges? Oh, did they use a toothbrush or a comb? Like, who did your braids or. That line up is sweet. I like those shoestrings. Oh, you got taller. You like just those smart. Because the capacity work, I can't really spend a lot of time with each student. So I just try to make like, the small times really big that could bring a smile or a smirk.

Billy Wall-Winkel: Or who stole your tooth. Your tooth is everybody's teeth are missing. They saying that they lost a tooth where I'ma find that Person who's stealing everybody's teeth, you know, just to create just small moments to smile, small moments to feel good small moments when they feel, you know, seen, you know. And I think that in doing that, just those small things, it helps to empower or ignite someone to feel and do better. Because when you feel better, you do better, you know, you feel better, you think better. And it's like dominoes. You know, the domino effect. If I feel better and I'm around you, I'm not going to help you feel worse because I'm feeling good, you know, like with a group of children and feeling good, you know? So I just yeah, I want people to know that there are people out here that genuinely care and don't want anything in return. And that's the last thing that like when we do like service projects and things at my school. Like I'm really trying to empower them to see the power of serving and not to get something back. Just to give it just how powerful that is like to. I don't want anything like the things that I do. I don't want anything in return. If you give me, like, a Nike, you know, gift card, I'm not going to turn it down, but I'm not doing it for that. You know, I just. It's the right thing to do, you know? Yeah. And I think in working with Casey, it keeps that fresh perspective in your mind.

Lily Chen: Yeah. Any reflections on being a business owner and being your own boss and the challenges and things that come with that?

Emmanuel Smith: Not being afraid to learn. I'm. I have for for a long time. Kind of typecasted myself as a business person where this is what I'm good at. You need a song to pump out a song. 5 minutes. Give me the concept. I can record it. 10 minutes. You know I can do that, but. This business part of it? Oh.

Emmanuel Smith: I don't know. And with me, I think it's really two. What I've learned is understanding my style, my style of business, my style of thinking so that I am not down on myself. Yo, this is how you're wired. E like this is how you're wired. So with you being wired this way. This is what you need. You need somebody on a team because there's going to be so far that you can go in there. You're squirreling everywhere because you met your capacity. But still learn this stuff. But you need somebody on a squad or hire or outsource so that it gets done, because I will do a bit. And then in doing that bit, I'll see that word out here that sounded really odd. Out to be a sweet song. And then I'll go and do that. And then I'll leave that order of business undone because that passage is oozes out, you know? So learning, being balance with learning what you need to know. And if you're not able to do it. Outsource. Yeah. You know, save up in outsource if that's to or finding partners, that's one thing that I've really started to learn. People will partner with you if you put it out there. Not everybody will do it, but people will partner with your vision. But they got to know your vision. They got to know what you are about. They got to be able to feel it and see it themselves. So in partnering, like I've been doing a lot of bartering too, like, hey, I'll do this, I'll take this and I'll, I'll put this on my video and you do the same for me. You give me this footage like I've, I've had an opportunity to really partner with a git masters. You know where you know I'm coming up. I've been coming up with a lot of a kid. I don't even know if it's a black kid. Git music, you know, where it's like you can learn. But it got that Detroit flavor, you know, the ghetto tech, you know? And I was like, Yo, but I don't have anybody that, you know, yo, I have people, you know, I video footage of my kids class says. Yo, can we partner? Can we? Yeah, what you doing is sweet. But if I never would have reached out or if I never. If I would have sat on. Bang. Nobody. Nobody's watching my stuff. Only got 20 views. But he saw it, though, you know, he was like, yo, this is dope. And then just being able and being confident because sometimes like being an independent business owner, you can lose confidence after a while, like because you may not see the growth that you really want, but just stick to it, you know, and know that you have something you got to alter. Alter, but like stick to it, you know?

Lily Chen: Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you're such a classic artist in that, like, you're so driven by your art and there's the business.

Emmanuel Smith: The business part. Ah, man, but that has to happen. And, um, yeah, I know. With me it has to be. On a team or if just finding a third way like, okay, there's this way, there's this way. But this is like a bridge between that way and that way. And this can work too, in the meantime. Until you able to get to this point. So it's like there's alternate ways to do things, too. And that's what I've learned and still learning, you know?

Lily Chen: Yeah. Yeah. It's it's always amazing to hear people say that. You know that other people brought them along their journey. Yeah.

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Lily Chen: We don't fight the fight alone.

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, even Anthony. Like, he's like, yo, too. I'm working on some stuff for the Detroit Youth Choir. He's like, Yeah. Now, because of what happened, I have three choirs. I have a younger choir that they will just work perfectly what you're doing. I know what you're trying to do, like. So it's just. It's just not giving up, you know? And the timing may not be your timing, but just know that timing is perfect, if that makes sense. But you can't give up. Yeah.

Lily Chen: Yeah. Okay. All right. So I have two final questions for you. We've got. So what does what does hustle mean to you?

Emmanuel Smith: Hmm? So hustle. To me. It's kind of like a play on words. So. So a hustle to me is like. Being able to... Articulate. What you're trying to do real quick or to the right person at the right time, like from kind of like that, like the Detroit hustler, you know, the fast talker. Right. But then on the other side, you have like the Detroit, the innovators and the the grit, the the the determination to build something from the ground, you know, where, like, you may not have the resources or the resources haven't been made yet for what you're trying to do, like Dilla had the, the, that the, the mindset, the genius mind to do things and he had to tweak what was given because the machines that he was using, you know, no one was programing the drum machines the way that he was doing it, but he just needed boom. All right. And I will put my Detroit twist on it, you know, so like the hustle to me is. Especially like being like Detroit from the soil. It's like being able to innovate, like. The vision is there. The resources may not be there yet, but from your prototype, others will be able to create the resource that others can use. You know, you see that time and time again, especially from the city. You know, we start things and then others will grab that, you know, oh, my God. Where did that come from? You know? And. Take it in and run, you know, and that's what I take the innovation and being able to create. What wasn't there. From Vision. And then being able to take it and hustle. You know, yo, did you hear it? Like I would be at, like, parks and Chuck E. Cheese is like, I got a chance to do something with Chuck E. Cheese the other day. But that's another story. But here's is a math mix tape. What are you talking about? You know, just be able to because I remember I ran into Elzhi back in the day it was outside of like a a harmony house or it was like some music spot off of Livernois and gave me a mix tape, you know, it just to like experience that. And then later on like, yo, that was Elzhi, you know, but he starts from somewhere, you know, and we, you take it from the ground and just keep going, keep improving and keep and innovate. That's what I feel. And I said about a thousand things.

Lily Chen: No, I love it. I mean, you've broken it down into two parallel things happening at the same time, which is this beautiful thing of creation. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And also putting it out there. Yeah. Yeah. And making the world aware. Yeah, right. That. That you're doing something amazing. Yeah. People are doing amazing things.

Emmanuel Smith: They are.

Lily Chen: Yeah. What about the word hustler?

Emmanuel Smith: So the word hustler. Um, I think that it comes from well, to me. And sometimes when people hear it has a negative connotation to it.

Lily Chen: Yeah.

Emmanuel Smith: But to me. What I think of like even just from, like, music. I think of I think of jazz. I think of Improvization and I think of freestyle. And to me, like a hustler. Can take words, images, sights and sounds and put it together so masterfully. To to relate it to someone. It's almost like creating something out of nothing. You know, like. To me like those clashing sounds that the lonely is, like, made so masterful, you know, like he was able to hustle those sounds like those sounds weren't. They weren't supposed to go together, you know, they weren't supposed to clash like that. That clash wasn't supposed to, like, catch your attention the way that it does, but the way that he masterfully did it, you know, and to, like, be able to take, you know, words and sights and sounds and bring it together so beautifully, you know? Um. Took to create images to create. I think that a hustler for me is like an innovator, you know, where it's like. This isn't so. This may not even. But. Have you heard? Have you seen? Have you. Have you even thought about doing it this way? You know. And it. A hustler at times pushes against the grain because it's like. No, but you're not supposed to do it like that. But no. Did you really think of the implications of if we did it this way and being able to take. Adverbs in nouns, verbs, pronouns, you know, different clauses and bring it together so that it comes to life in someone's mind, like, oh, wait a minute. I didn't think of it like that. Or they may not even come to the realization right there, but it's like to see, you know, and they go home and they ponder on it for a little bit. It was like, Wait a minute. Maybe they were onto something, you know, with that right there. So I think a hustler at the heart is an innovator.

Lily Chen: You know, I'm hearing about from you basically, like about the miracle of something new. Yeah. You know, and. Some of the crazy things that can happen. Yeah. When people are doing new things. Yeah. You know, it's, it's it's been so cool to get to talk to you. You are doing some really good work and it's. It's always amazing. You know, when you talk to business owners, they're not primarily business owners. You always. Artists or chefs or, you know, whatever they're doing first. Yeah, right. You're you're very much driven by the work that you do, the vision that you see for Detroit. For kids.

Emmanuel Smith: Yeah.

Lily Chen: Yeah. And, um. And thank you. Thank you for the work that you do. I mean, we. We loved Mister Rogers, but I wanted to see something different. Now we have. You know what I mean?

Emmanuel Smith: Thank you.

Lily Chen: Yeah, it's cool. Okay. I'm going to stop this recording.