Patricia Flemings, March 8th, 2014

Patricia Flemings, March 8th, 2014

In this interview, Patricia Flemings shares the story of her life growing up in a Detroit neighborhood, as well as her transition into adulthood.

Detroit Historical Society

Detroit Historical Society

en-US

Patricia Flemings

Patricia Flemings was born and raised in Detroit, and had spent most of life living in and around the city. While she would occasionally go out to see other cities, Flemings felt none of them ever felt like home the way Detroit did.

Amber Flemings

Detroit, MI

3/8/2014

01:19:59

Amber Flemings: Okay. The name of the interviewer is Amber Fleming. The name of the interviewee is Patricia Fleming's. The date is March 8th, 2014. The place is 4053 Sturtevant, Detroit, Michigan. The purpose of this interview is to learn more about my mother and her experiences in Detroit. Do I have your permission to audio record this interview?

Patricia Flemings: Yes, you do.

Amber Flemings: Okay. And can I have confirmation that you've signed the consent form?

Patricia Flemings: I signed.

Amber Flemings: Okay. I would like to thank you for doing this interview with me. Can we start with where your parents grew up?

Patricia Flemings: My mother grew up in Arkansas and Benton, Arkansas, and my father was raised born and raised in Georgia. And that's where they were. That's where they're from.

Amber Flemings: How long have you lived in Detroit?

Patricia Flemings: All of my life, off and on.

Amber Flemings: You said that you've lived in Detroit all of your life. Where?

Patricia Flemings: I was born in Detroit.

Amber Flemings: Oh, you were born in Detroit. Where are some other places that you've been?

Patricia Flemings: I was in Toronto for a while. I stayed in Philadelphia for a minute. And it's in different places. It depended. I went to New York and stayed there for a few months. It was a bit fast. Philadelphia was not the kind of city that I want to live in. Toronto was wonderful, but I couldn't stay there very long because it was costly. And basically that's just about it. Other than that.

Amber Flemings: So between the places that you've lived, what brought you back to Detroit?

Patricia Flemings: It was always home. And no matter what, I always ended up back home. And because of my mother and my family and I just it was home.

Amber Flemings: Well, you say that your parents came from different places like Arkansas and such. What brought them to Detroit?

Patricia Flemings: Well, my grandmother, both grandmothers, my mother's grandmother and paternal and immature maternity paternity and maternal maternal side. Their families came here, their husbands, they were married and their kids came here because there were jobs available. This is like back during before the Depression. Okay. There were jobs available. There was a better chance for them to do things that they love, to do, things that they wanted to do. My grandfather was a lawyer. He was going to school for law and he knew that if he was to go to school and if he was to get employed in the south, it wouldn't be as an attorney. He wouldn't have anything to do with that because there was still a lot of prejudice going on down south. So that's what brought my dad's family, you know? Yeah, that's what brought my dad's family up here and my mother's family basically the same thing. They were college educated black people, and they did not want to be in the South. They wanted to work and they wanted jobs. They were hiring in the factories. They were hiring different people for different kind of jobs. And that's why they came for employment.

Amber Flemings: Your family traveled here to gain better employment opportunities because they were all college educated.

Patricia Flemings: My dad's father was college educated. My my both grandfathers were educated. College educated. Not the wives.

Amber Flemings: Not the wives.

Patricia Flemings: Not the wives. They were high school grads, which was a big deal then.

Amber Flemings: Okay. So. When they came to Detroit being college educated black men, what were the opportunities then?

Patricia Flemings: Limited. They thought that it would be a little more than what it was. But when they came. These are my grandparents we're talking about. Mm hmm. Okay. So things were. It was not like it is now. It was they were shut out of a lot of things. And so they worked for the railroad. They were Pullman. You know, they got jobs on the railroad. I don't know. One of them was a Pullman. The other one was he worked inside where one of them put the stool down on the ground so that the white people could walk, you know, step on the steps and such. He did that. And the other one, he was he worked inside of the of the trains and stuff that was like considered a good job. He was like a bartender, took tickets or whatever.

Amber Flemings: How do you feel about the fact that they were college educated men who moved to Detroit for better opportunities and then they ended up working in the railroad?

Patricia Flemings: How do you feel they ended up working in the railroad I feel like that's what they had to do. They did what they had to do to provide for their families. Okay. Mm hmm. And so I think that they did what's best for the families. I mean, I feel great about it. It was an honest living. They you know, I think it was a good thing.

Amber Flemings: To home during this time when your grandparents were working in the real world, whether it was on outside or an inside. What were their wives doing, your grandmothers?

Patricia Flemings: They were at home. They were taking care of the children. They had children. They had some. I think my dad's mom. Did day work she did domestic She was the domestic.

Amber Flemings: Could you clarify that for me? What exactly is a domestic?

Patricia Flemings: A domestic is a person who comes to your house and do housework. And so she would do that. And my mother's mother, she was her life was a little more leisurely. She belonged to a. She joined in NAACP. She was a member of NAACP So she was around a different class of people. So she was also in a writing club where they would go up north and ride horses. And so one of them, had they lived to, you know, one family had a little more than the other.

Amber Flemings: Okay. Okay. So with that said, how do you think that shaped your parents, the fact that one came from a from what I hear, a well-to-do family and one came from more more of a working class family.

Patricia Flemings: What do I what, what?

Amber Flemings: I'm sorry. I'm saying, how do you think that they're your grandparents and what they went through as far as jobs and working and and how you say one of your parents, your grandmother's had a more leisurely life because they're a little more well-off. How do you think that affected your parents growing up in Detroit?

Patricia Flemings: I think that my mother always felt left alone and neglected, although she lived in a big, pretty house and she had a lot of things. She was an only child. And if it wasn't, if it weren't for her grandmother. Okay. Because my mother stay in the south with her grandmother. Mm hmm. And so she stayed there for years. Like she didn't come up to Detroit until she was like 12, 11 or 12. Okay. Okay. And my dad. His mother would not. She. They were together. It was it was a different kind of closeness. They you know, they she wouldn't leave her son for anybody and she wouldn't leave her husband. And so. It made one of them really family orientated and it made one of them. She was family orientated, too, but she didn't know how to be family orientated.

Amber Flemings: Okay. And when both your parents came to Detroit, how did your parents come to be in Detroit? You said one grew up here because he stayed with his family. But you said your mother grew up in the South. Right. She eventually did come to Detroit. What was it like for her?

Patricia Flemings: She liked it. She liked it. She she was pleased to be here. And she she liked Detroit. You know, she just wanted to be with her mother and father.

Amber Flemings: Hmm. Do you know what it was like for her or when she first came to Detroit?

Patricia Flemings: Well, she was kind of, um. I can't. I can tell you some of the things that she told me. You know, she was kind of introverted because she was a southern girl from the South, and the girls were not too receptive, you know, to her because she talked different. She looked different. She was very fair with gray eyes. And the kids treated her a little bit different. And the same thing goes for my dad, you know? Mm hmm. They look different from the other children, so, you know, they both had the same. My father, they would beat him a lot because he was really fair and call him names. So I think that that's something that they had in common. And I think that's really interesting. My dad used to watch my mother going to school. Trowbridge I think it was. And he loved her red hair. She was a natural redhead and he wasn't going to public school at this time. And my grandmother, my my mother's mother eventually put my mother in Catholic school and they began. That's how they became close friends. But prior to that, my dad would watch her through his window because he thought that she was gorgeous. Mm hmm. And he talked about it all the time. Oh, okay. And he called her red.

Amber Flemings: He called her red.

Patricia Flemings: He called a red and she called him Moses.

Amber Flemings: Why did she call him Moses?

Patricia Flemings: Because, you know, he was. He was you know, he was. I don't know. It was just something in between them.

Amber Flemings: Yeah. Oh, it sounds interesting. What do you think is like the social dynamics of the fact that you had parents that went to a private Catholic school during. Is this also during the Depression?

Patricia Flemings: Well, we were born in 48, and so that was after World War Two. I do believe the war was over. Everything was plentiful. Things were different, you know, So it was it was a different society at this point. My parents are grown and married and I because I've got a sister and she was born during the war in and I've got a sister that was born. Right. When they were trying to decide if they, you know, what was going to go on because I was born in 48, so Kathy was born like in 46 to 45 in in Sandra as she was born. And I think like 42, 41, 42, something like that. So.

Amber Flemings: So just to clarify, you have 2 or 3 siblings.

Patricia Flemings: I have three siblings. Three sisters.

Amber Flemings: Okay. And their names are Kathleen, Kathy and.

Patricia Flemings: Sandra.

Amber Flemings: Okay. And everyone calls are A.S. that correct?

Patricia Flemings: Yes.

Amber Flemings: Okay. What was it like growing up in Detroit with two siblings?

Patricia Flemings: It was wonderful. Detroit was a wonderful place. We lived on the phone. You know, we lived oh, my mother's parents live. They had a house on the film. Okay. Which is now the new center. And my dad's mother lived on John R. Between Bobby in between she lived on Palmer, between John R and Woodward. Okay. Okay. And it was. It was wonderful because in what I had more fun with my dad's mom.

Amber Flemings: Really wasn't.

Patricia Flemings: Because of where she lived at on Palmer, the street over which I think is the street over from where she lived. They had a store and you had you had to go down under the ground. There was some steps to take you in the basement. And they that was our ice cream shop. And it was just more fun over there. And it was an apartment building. So it was a lot of people, you know, it was a lot of people there. And we set out on the porch and, you know, it was just it was friendlier and everybody was nice and it was just a different kind of environment. It was everybody took pride in where they lived. The apartment buildings were gorgeous. You know, they had flowers on the porch. I mean, it was just beautiful. And everybody knew everybody, you know, And your mother could take you outside. And if she had to running it, you didnt't have to worry about rapists and killers and kids getting snatched. And, you know, it just didn't happen. You know, And when I was at my grandmother's, my other grandmother, which is my mother's mother, and loved it over there because everybody over there was homeowners. And back when I was on the corner, they you know, we went it was a Chinese store that sold produce on another corner. You know, you could the region of the region, the name of the theater, which was on Woodward and West Grand Boulevard, was the Regent Theater. And we went there every Saturday. And I think it was a dime. You know, we went there and then there was another show, the Fisher Theater. The Fisher wasn't it wasn't a theater then. It was actually a show. And then we'd run up under the tunnels in the in the, you know, like when we get out the show because there's a tunnel leaving from the general, from the Fisher Building to the General Motors building. And every Sunday when we would go to the theater, we run through the theater, run through the tunnels. And oh, it was just in. Plus they had cars in there. We get in the cars. It was it was just fun. Detroit was safe. It was beautiful. People enjoyed their homes and their families. There was not any violence in the streets. You know, people dressed up to go out. You know, I remember my mother and father going out a lot, you know, And they were always so gorgeous. You know, people wore gloves in beautiful clothing. Women were very feminine. And I remember smelling my aunt, just like when she passed, I kept a sweater because I could every now me and even now I could still smell a Cologne, you know, because that's that her Cologne reminds me of her mom, you know. And so it was just it was just a different era. Just a different a different, as my dad was saying, different flavor.

Amber Flemings: Diffrent Flavor

Patricia Flemings: It was. But it was a good flavor.

Amber Flemings: Oh, wow. Oh, you paint the picture you paint of all Detroit. Growing up in Detroit is beautiful. It sounds like. It sounds like I'm going to enjoy. It was a beautiful place to grow up because it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of places to go and it was safe.

Patricia Flemings: We all everybody walked to school together. There wasn't anything where as like, now you have cold days. We didn't have that. We put on rubber boots. Mm hmm. Okay. We put our rubber boots. We put on scarves. You know, we had masks. We had coats, which were called boycotts. They were people call them pickles now, but they were boycotts back then. Mm hmm. And we put our clothes and we, the girl, all the kids would walk to school together. The elementary school kids would walk together. The you know, it wasn't it wasn't middle school, per se. It was a junior high school. And the kids, like 13 and up, they'd go together. And, you know, it was a high school. Those children were all everybody walk to school, you know, And that's how we got to know people in other areas, other blocks. Everybody knew everybody because everybody went to the same schools, which is so different than it is now. You know, we didn't have to catch the bus. You know, we went to school with with Bonnie that did live next door. You know what I'm saying? We walked. Our parents didn't have to drive us to school. They weren't afraid. They didn't think that people would jump out of the bushes and rape us. It was no such animal. Mm hmm. You know, and if anything like that ever happened. Mm hmm. The men in the neighborhood would handle it. Mm hmm. So, I mean, certain things just didn't happen. And it was. It was a real treat to live in the city. Mm hmm. It was an awesome treat to live in the city.

Amber Flemings: So over time, you say that the safety in Detroit has dramatically declined.

Patricia Flemings: Oh, yeah. I think I think that after the riots, I think that before the riots, it was still pleasant. People still own their homes. People still were working and things were pretty prosperous and pretty good money was flowing. But I think after the riots, I think that things changed, especially after they burned down Wall Street. I think that so many things happened. Mm hmm. You know, it was like it was. I'm trying to think of a name of the different clubs that were on the. Oh, it was a restaurant. I can't think of the name of that place. But it was a really nice restaurant. You know, it was all kind of clubs. And, I mean, everybody would come because it was like bars on Wall Street entertainment. Deloris Serve people like that would come, you know, and me and my dad and my mother during the time that they were coming up. And they were young adults, Donna and Woodward and all those streets that was called back. It was called. Oh, I can't think of what it was called. It wasn't the bottom. Black bottom was further down. Mm hmm. But they had the nightclubs. Mm hmm. Where are the big names? Were come, you know, And that's what my dad and mom. They would go to the Gotham Hotel in the hotel. They would go to the Gotham. And I can't think of the name of the. The different clubs and stuff. I hear them talking about different things that they did. And it was just. It was just a different time.

Amber Flemings: Mm hmm. What about 12th Street during being destroyed during the race riots?

Patricia Flemings: Well, I was going to school there for nursing, and so that particular day that it happened, I was doing my internship over a Kirkwood hospital. Mm hmm. And we couldn't leave because they were burning Wall Street down. So we watched it on the televisions. Mm hmm. And the hospital people couldn't move around. They said it started on 12th and Claire. Mm hmm. But it was a Perry's picture studio. He was one of the biggest photographers as far as doing graduation pictures for the teenagers. For seniors. His shop was right there on Claremont and Woodward, and it was an after hours spot next door. Mm hmm. And they said that that's what we had started, but that's what they put in the media. The people in the hood said something else.

Amber Flemings: What did the people in the hood say about how the race was started?

Patricia Flemings: The I'm trying to think it was the big four. Mm hmm. Which was the police at. They call them the Big four. They would travel in cars with four big, burly white men. Uh huh. And they got some guys and they began to question him about something. And one thing led to another. And. It started. They went into the club, They raided the car. They went in there, and it just turned into something real ugly. They were tired of those police officers killing black men in our neighborhoods. And I guess all the frustrations and everything just it just boiled over. Mm hmm. And it lasted for a while. And then after it happened and the people in the neighborhoods which I never understood, they went into the stores on 12th Street, they looted, they took groceries, they took televisions because Wall Street had a lot of power shops as well. Mm hmm. And they stole televisions, jewelry. And they didn't do anything with they just took it. I mean, they were taking food. They were tearing up people's businesses. You know, like, what is it? It was a shrimp shack. I think it was Dayton Areas. Yeah, I think it was done at is they tore that place up. They tore up all those black businesses. They set the houses. I mean, it was it was it was it was horrendous. It was horrible. You know? And after that incident, it just seemed like things never could come back together. That's during the time that Coleman Young was running for mayor. Mm hmm. And his his ticket was to get rid of stress because they had created more problems than anything. And after that, drugs were rampant. Heroin. It was rampant in the neighborhoods, and everything went downhill from there. Mm hmm.

Amber Flemings: So between the race riots, destroying black businesses in the city and.

Patricia Flemings: The race riots every yeah, that did it.

Amber Flemings: That. And then the connection between the drugs that in Detroit? Yeah. That's what helped in decline in safety for Detroiters.

Patricia Flemings: It was not only in safety, it was just it was just a different feel. You know, it was a different it was a different field altogether. I mean, it was it was in the 60s. And it followed right on to the 70s. Mm hmm. You know.

Amber Flemings: Earlier you mentioned the big four and you said those were like the big police guys did that the big four, did they have any connection to do with the the Motor City, the Motor City like car industry?

Patricia Flemings: No, they were police officers. The big four. The big four of them were it was a white team of police officers. Big police officers. Mm hmm. And they would come into the city. They work for the Detroit Police Department. Mm hmm. And they would beat people. They would take money from prostitutes. They were crooked, a lot of them.

Amber Flemings: So as police officers, they weren't there to help. They were there to to harm and encourage.

Patricia Flemings: They were there under the under the assumption that they were there to protect and serve. But they did very little protecting. They allowed drugs to be sold in the city and they knew who was selling drugs and they were getting money. Mm hmm. It was a mess. It was a big mess.

Amber Flemings: So they were. They. They're very crooked. Yeah, they were crooked.

Patricia Flemings: They were, you know, some of them, not all, but a great majority of them were bad. Mm hmm. You know, and in in if you lived in the city, you could see what they were doing. Mm hmm. And they blamed it on the blacks. But it was not the blacks. It was the blacks did it because they were. Some of them did it because there were drugs and they were on drugs. Mm hmm. And they did what they had to do to survive, I guess. Mm hmm. But it progressively. It didn't. It got worse. You know, the people that had jobs. Like where my grandmother lived. A lot of those people began to move out. Mm hmm. You know, because the city wasn't safe anymore. Um, the apartment dwellers. They tried to save up their money, you know, because they worked in factories as well. Hmm. And the factories were still, you know, booming. And so instead of investing into a practice, they wanted to get out of the city. Mm hmm. So they bought houses like in Palmdale and different places. You know, they came West Side. They came from the east side to the west side. People began migrating in different areas that were better than, you know, better than the area that they were living in.

Amber Flemings: Speaking of moving out of bad areas into better areas than when you were living there early, you you mentioned black bottom. What exactly is black bottom?

Patricia Flemings: Black bottom is a place that was originally it was for it was for it was 90, 99% of the people lived. There were black. Mm hmm. You know, Coleman Young was raised there. Mm hmm. Del Reys was raised there. A lot of successful black people came out of black bottom. But that was our area. You know, my dad's family lived in black bottom. Mm hmm. And that's a certain part. It's, like Far East. Mm hmm. You know, and it was. It was a nice area. They took care of their homes there, too, although they were less expensive. And 90% of them had those potbelly stoves in them. Mm hmm. And so it was. But they kept their property up. It was a different it was an all black area, you know, over by the cemetery where, like, monolith over in that vicinity. And right off. Jefferson. Mm hmm. You know, it was it was they called it Black Bottom.

Amber Flemings: They called it Black bottom. How do you think Detroit growing up in Detroit and seeing how it's changed over time, how do you think that shaped you?

Patricia Flemings: I think that's why I'm there so many times, because I was trying to find. I was trying to find a place better. Mm hmm. And I just love Detroit. I mean, I think it made me into a stronger woman. Mm hmm. Because if you can make it in Detroit, you can make it anywhere. But, I mean, I think it made me pretty well rounded. Mm hmm.

Amber Flemings: What? What exactly about Detroit made you real well-rounded?

Patricia Flemings: My experiences, the people that I met, the older people that I know. Mm hmm. The guy standing on the corner, they were the drunks. You know? I mean, honestly, they were drunk, but they didn't bother you. They tell you, Girl, you better get in the house. Mm hmm. I'm gonna tell your momma on you. Mm hmm. You know, you better not be talking to that boy. You know, I was. It was. It was still a community. Mm hmm. You know, It hadn't lost that community feel, and I think that's what made me want to reach out and help people. That's why I became a counselor. Mm hmm. You know, because I understood. Mm hmm. Those people.

Amber Flemings: When you say those people, you mean you understood?

Patricia Flemings: I understood our people. You know, I understood how people could go from working a eight hour job in a factory and end up being homeless. Mm hmm. You know, or end up being a crackhead or something. You know what I'm saying? They didn't have crafting, and they had heroin and weed and stuff. It just deteriorated. The family structure.

Amber Flemings: The. The drugs and the door to the family structure.

Patricia Flemings: Yeah. You know, because the women in the 70s, they began getting hired in the plants as well. Mm hmm. And the husbands, a lot of them were not working. Mm hmm. And so it made the women feel as though they were the head of the household. It took all that away from the man. And it was just a different environment.

Amber Flemings: A different environment. It was different because the women, they went from being housewives to being workers that made them. That they made them feel empowered. Mm hmm.

Patricia Flemings: Although they had a different pay rate than the husband. Than the men. Mm hmm. But the men had a different pay rate from the white men, so. Mm hmm.

Amber Flemings: When you say that, are you, like, hinting towards discrimination in the workplace.

Patricia Flemings: There was discrimination In the workplace, workers. They didn't hire a black woman. The only thing a black woman could do it had since when I was coming up is running an elevator. And they were few and far between. Mm hmm. You didn't think like sales girls. You didn't see black people working at Hudson's? Not unless they were janitors or janitorial or. As for stated elevator operators. Uh huh. You know, and Chris Keyes. It was. It was discrimination. Mm hmm.

Amber Flemings: That ties back to what you said earlier about how your your great or how your grandparents, they were college, your grandfathers were college educated. They moved here for better opportunities. And yet they ended up working in jobs that didn't necessarily benefit their degrees.

Patricia Flemings: Right.

Amber Flemings: So would you say the same thing happened when with with racism in Detroit? Like people would get their degrees or they get their diplomas and they still have a really hard time finding jobs. Right. If it was.

Patricia Flemings: Especially if you were black, if you were of a darker complexion. Mm hmm. You had a harder time than, say, you would.

Amber Flemings: Could you explain? What do you mean when you say, like how if you had.

Patricia Flemings: A hard time finding employment in an office.

Amber Flemings: So the darker your complexion, the harder you was to find job opportunities.

Patricia Flemings: It would be very hard because they didn't want that face to be the face of their company. And if you were like, in a receptionist. Mm hmm. You had to be light skinned, long hair. You had to have a certain look about you. And as much as not being, you couldn't look black. Like we. There were no dreads then. But I got dismissed from a job because I wore natural.

Amber Flemings: What do you mean when you say you were natural?

Patricia Flemings: I wore. I had my hair in a natural style. And then. Guy's words were. That's what I say about those people with that that have that kind of hair. That's my hair. Mm hmm. And if I chose to wear natural and been a problem.

Amber Flemings: In an afro.

Patricia Flemings: And.

Amber Flemings: You say natural, okay.

Patricia Flemings: It was. It was called a natural thing.

Amber Flemings: Oh, okay.

Patricia Flemings: You know, but.

Amber Flemings: So you said your grandmother, she had light eyes and red hair and then your father? No, my.

Patricia Flemings: Mother. She had light eyes, you know. You know, Mama, She had light eyes, red hair. You know, And she was cute. Tiny? Mm hmm. You know, so she had more opportunities than most.

Amber Flemings: Okay. And what about your father? You said he was light with green eyes. So did he. Do you think he fared better in the workforce?

Patricia Flemings: Yeah, but, yeah, he did. But. He was not a worker.

Amber Flemings: What do you mean when you say he wasn't a worker?

Patricia Flemings: He never wanted to work for anybody. He always did his own thing. He wanted to do something where he would be in control of what he did.

Amber Flemings: Okay. And what exactly did he do to work towards being in control of what?

Patricia Flemings: Well, he owned the party store at one point. Mm hmm. You know, he he did different things. He sold clothes. He was a tailor. Mm hmm. And so he would make coats and clothes and things like that. Um, he did stuff like that to make money. He did work at Fords. My grandfather, which was my grandfather. And. What is this guy, though? Walter Ruther. Oh, the one. They've got the highway named after the one that started the uprising at Ford Motor Company. Huh? Okay. My grandfather and that guy were very, very close. My grandfather on my mother's side. He became really big in the union. Mm hmm. Okay. And so I'm telling you that I lost my train of thought.

Amber Flemings: The. You're talking about the different jobs that your father had. Oh, yeah.

Patricia Flemings: My mother and my grandfather got my grandfather. My grandfather got my dad a job at Ford's. The Ford Foundry. Mm hmm. And my father hated it. He hated it. He hated it. He hated working in that place. And he made a vow that he would never work in that place ever again.

Amber Flemings: What about working in the. In the motor industry? Just what do you hate about working in the factories that was so bad?

Patricia Flemings: He said it was like a plantation.

Amber Flemings: Like a plantation.

Patricia Flemings: He said it was like working in the fields. Everything. People were mechanical, you know? And he just didn't like it. I mean, that's. He just didn't like that.

Amber Flemings: He seen it as like a new age form of slavery.

Patricia Flemings: Yes.

Amber Flemings: Speaking of slavery, is there any was there any slavery in your family prior to coming to the Detroit?

Patricia Flemings: Yes My great grandmother, my mother's mother would tell us about when she was a child. The people would come, the white people from other farms would come and her her. Her master would had the children. Mm hmm. You know, they would hide the child children. They would, you know, their two kids, they would hide them because the slave owner didn't want them to be sold to that particular farm owner because he made the slaves eat out of a horse trough.

Amber Flemings: Oh. Oh. And so he hid the children so that they wouldn't be sold to particular slave slave owners. That would show up.

Patricia Flemings: Right. And my great grandmother was fortunate enough to be one of those children. She ended up owning the farm.

Amber Flemings: That she was fortunate enough to not be sold to other slave.

Patricia Flemings: Owners. And she was fortunate enough to marry up. And she owned the farm. She rode a horse and she would you know, she would go through the fields. I can only remember, like, I wish my sister was here. She remembers a lot. Plus, she's older than me, so she knows more.

Amber Flemings: Well, you say she married. You mean she may not one of the slave owners?

Patricia Flemings: She. No, She married somebody. That was probably the father. The. The person. Mm hmm. Okay. Because just like, as you know, she her people were house people. They worked inside of the house.

Amber Flemings: They were house slaves.

Patricia Flemings: Yes. But they were still slaves and they still had to submit to the master so the master would get several women pregnant. Mm hmm. You know, and so as they got older, you know. Plus things changed in the 60s. The 50s in the 60s, in the 40s, it was. They were changing. My grandmother made a promise to God that she would never, ever go back to the south.

Amber Flemings: Uh, because it was so bad.

Patricia Flemings: It was horrible, she said it was horrible. She called them. She called them redneck. I can't think of what I can't think of it now. She said it often. She said it often? Yeah. I can't think of what it was, but it was horrible.

Amber Flemings: It was awful. Um, so going from how slaves in the South and then coming to Detroit and going into the auto industry and the railroad and stuff like that and seeing how Detroit has changed over time. What? How, would you say that Detroit is different compared? Compare it to the South in the past and and how it is now.

Patricia Flemings: I don't know how the South is. I'm not from the South. I'm not from the South. And when I did experience the South, it was horrible. And that was in the 70s, I believe. Now, I was in the 60s when I went to Texas. What's the name of that town in Texas? My sister's husband was. Ah, he was a soldier. Mm hmm. And he was transferred to someplace down in Texas. Uh huh. And when we went there, my brother, my grandmother drove my sister there because we were going to stop in Kentucky as well to see some family member. Clarksville, Tennessee.

Amber Flemings: Clyde's Tilden.

Patricia Flemings: That's where was Clarksville, Tennessee. And when we got to Tennessee, we didn't know which way this address was. So on one side of the street, it was a brick wall. Mm hmm. And on the other side of the street, it was this little quaint gas station. Mm hmm. And, of course, we were driving a 1955 Pontiac, which was uptown in town. It was not town car. And here we come with our black sails, and we pulled into this gas station. Mm hmm. And they told us that we had to go across the street. That they wouldn't serve us. Oh, okay. Mm hmm. And when we went across the street, it was total chaos. It was. But that's where she had to live.

Amber Flemings: When you say chaos, what happened? Well, I mean.

Patricia Flemings: Everybody, it was behind that wall. It was horrible. The houses were horrible. I mean, it looked like something out of a movie. It was horror. It was horrible. You know, people lived in rooms and it was just a mess. The streets were crowded. Mm hmm. And my sister had an apartment over a house. Mm hmm. And that was the smallest apartment I had ever seen in my life. And I stayed there with her for a week. And so she was pregnant? Mm hmm. And we decided we wanted to go downtown because we were not accustomed to all of this, you know? So we wanted to go downtown and have some lunch and, you know, do a little shopping. Mm hmm. And they told us that we had to sit in the back of the bus.

Amber Flemings: Oh, you hadn't an experience that.

Patricia Flemings: Never, ever had us experienced anything like that. And my sister said, I'm not. We're not sitting in the back of the bus. Mm hmm. And so he says, Well, you can't ride the bus. She says, Well, you do. We're not getting off. You know, my husband is a soldier and I'm sitting in the back of the bus. Mm hmm. And they wanted to put us off the bus, but they couldn't because laws were being implemented. They couldn't do it. Mm hmm. But anyway, when we went downtown, the people would not. They wouldn't. Services, uh, you know, and we had to go back home and have a sandwich.

Amber Flemings: Oh, wow. So growing up in Detroit, you know, compared to, like, that level of racism, you hit Tennessee.

Patricia Flemings: The only thing that I can remember when I was a kid, it was a Greenleaf restaurant on Woodward Avenue. Mm hmm. And we went to the church across the street from this particular place. And it was so amazing to me when I would go by this particular restaurant. We walked past the restaurant to go to the Penny Arcade every Sunday. Mm hmm. And I would look in that restaurant. There were no black people. They were servers. Mm hmm. But no black people were sitting in their restaurant. Mm hmm. And I always had it in my mind then when I get older. Mm hmm. I'm going to go to that restaurant and sit right here by this window.

Amber Flemings: What about that was just so important you have in making it a point to to grow up in sitting in that restaurant.

Patricia Flemings: Because I never saw a black person sitting down. My grandmother would always tells Chichi, Stop looking in that window. Stop looking at that window. And I just couldn't help it. And when I got I work when I got my first job, which is. Which was at Kress. Keith. Mm hmm. And I got my first paycheck, which wasn't very much. Mm hmm. I made it a point to go in that restaurant and sit in that window. And I had to call my mother. Because I ordered food that I could not afford. So I guess maybe that was why there were so many whites, only whites in that restaurant.

Amber Flemings: They were the only ones that could afford it.

Patricia Flemings: They were the only ones that could afford it. You know, being in that area, they were the only people they could do it.

Amber Flemings: They could do it. And so far, we talked about like our black bottom was like a mostly black area. And we talked about that's where your father grew. That's where he grew up in the in Black Byron, which was a predominantly black community. And we talked about where your grandmothers lived and how nice their neighborhoods, where and how much fun you had at their house and in the neighborhood. Where exactly did you grow up in Detroit?

Patricia Flemings: Well, I grew up over to my because then families live together. Mm hmm. So I lived with my grandmother. My grandmother lived with We lived with my mother's mother. Mm hmm. Okay. And so we lived in a good area. Okay. And then when my father, you know, got. Oh, when he went well, he decided he wasn't going to work in the factory, and he got his own business and stuff started. Mm hmm. This was years later. We lived on Log Cabin and Seven Mile, which was right across the street from Palmer Park. Mm hmm. So that was a really good area. Mm hmm. A really good area. And so it was. I loved it. I mean, it was a good area. It was a good place to live.

Amber Flemings: And that's where you grew up in?

Patricia Flemings: I grew up basically at my grandmother's house because we my mother put certain stipulations on us. Mm hmm. Stipulations We couldn't play with people that had not be here in the back, in the kitchen.

Amber Flemings: Oh, okay.

Patricia Flemings: You know, so what my sisters and I would do because we didn't catch busses, we would walk. Mm hmm. From Log Cabin and Seven Mile, was it Seven mile? Six mile. We would walk from there. Mm hmm. All the way to Buffoo. Oh, we would. Wow. We would walk downtown to the library. And then we stayed with my. When we were at my dad's mom's. Which was more fun because we lived right there on Palmer. And the art museum was there. The historical museum was there. The library was there. And so that's where we spend our time. Mm hmm.

Amber Flemings: So you your pastimes, you you used it to go to the museums and and to explore Detroit.

Patricia Flemings: Yeah, we just. And we walked. We walked everywhere, and it was always a group of us. And so we would walk all over the place. We would go to the library. We would go to the museums. We would touch the arm. We weren't supposed to. That's how we that's how we at that point in time, it was a little if they had a staircase going to the basement of the museum and we would go down there. That's where we learned about the Rembrandts and we would see the name on the picture. We would run to the library and find out who Rembrandt was. We would find out who this person was. You know, Monet? Who is Monet? I knew that they had Monet jewelry at Hudson's, but we didn't know who Monet was. And so we were. This is how we found our stuff. We were inquisitive and it was good. You know, it opened up a whole nother world.

Amber Flemings: How do you think that changed in Detroit? Kids going from the, you know, playing, playing around, being able to, you know, walk like you said, all the way from where you live, that all the way to the library and being able to to go from the museum, being able to go to the museum and travel just around Detroit safely, how do you think that's changed over time? And then you also said that you you guys were inquisitive and that you would go to the library and you'd research the things that you would learn. How do you think entertainment for kids have changed.

Patricia Flemings: In the show? Number one, they put a price on on the museums. Well, we will go. It was free. Mm hmm. We could just go in there, you know, And it was. They had a. Children's Museum across the street. It was just so many things that were free, you know? And they had a pet pool, which is right there on Hancock. I think it's on Hancock and John R now. It's across from the high. What is an art school there? By Wayne.

Amber Flemings: State of the art store.

Patricia Flemings: No it's not. A store is a school. It's part of Wayne State. But anyway, we got the mosaic on the wall.

Amber Flemings: College Of creative.

Patricia Flemings: Study.

Amber Flemings: Studies.

Patricia Flemings: Okay. All that stuff was, wasn't there? Mm hmm. And we could just anywhere we wanted to go, we could walk and just walk in, and we didn't have to pay. Mm hmm. You know, it's just different. And the safety? The city became unsafe when girls started getting raped. Snatched? Hmm. You know, or better still, meeting a guy that was selling drugs and exposing us to it. Mm hmm. You know, so parents could be footloose and fancy free with their children anymore because it was so many bikers out there that were after them, you know, because it was girls in the 70s that I knew from childhood. And you'd see them and they were addicted to drugs or alcohol. You know what I'm saying? So it was a totally different kind of flavor. They just didn't it was different. And then they started closing recreation centers. We had recreation centers. We had we always had something to do. You know, if it was anything but go to church, you know, because we would go to the church was right there on the Gospel Temple was right there on the corner. And they always had activities in the summer for the kids. Mm hmm. So we would do that. They didn't you know, it wasn't a free lunch program or anything like that. It was just you were a member of the church who was raised in Gospel Temple, you know, And we would just go there and they would like we would go on trips to Kensington or go to Belle Isle or stuff like that. You know, it was it was different. Mm hmm. You know, and then they they even the only thing that they've done really good. Okay, they did really good. They would bring. They had this garbage can. Mm hmm. This garbage. It was a garbage truck. Mm hmm. And they converted that into a pool for the city kids. Mm hmm. And it would come in different neighborhoods. They didn't have access to that. But thank God that our family was a little bit different because my grandmother had summer cottages, and she had one in Holly. She had one in Mackinaw. Mm hmm. You know, and when she married her last husband, he had one in pleasant, I think was pleasant. Pleasant Lake or something like that. Mm hmm. So we spent a lot of our summers up north. Mm hmm. Okay, so we enjoy coming to the city because it was. Different. Mm hmm. But basically, my our grandmother with her, my mother's mother would come and get us. Mm hmm. And we would spend our summers up north. You know, we had an apricot tree. We had apricot trees in the backyard. We had in the kitchen of the cottage. We had a pump. You know, where we pump our water? We had a bath tub. I mean, it was a house, you know, And so we didn't the time that we spent in the city was fine. Mm hmm. But we didn't spend a lot of time in the city.

Amber Flemings: During the summers.

Patricia Flemings: As young people. Yeah, During the summers.

Amber Flemings: When you were in the city? During the summer. Recreationally. You guys would go to the library, go to museums, learn more about things.

Patricia Flemings: And we go to Brewster Center. Mm hmm. Because my grandfather, he like that recreation center for whatever reason. Mm hmm. And so they would take us to Brewster Center. I was on a swimming team. Mm hmm. And we. It was. It was different. It was structured, but it was. It was. We go to the. It was a girl. It was a YWCA downtown. We would go there, you know, and it was. It was free then. It was just different things were different.

Amber Flemings: They things were different because when you were younger, things were either like $0.10, like they were cheaper or they were free to to give kids activities to free. They weren't just out and about like do getting in the trouble.

Patricia Flemings: You don't have to pay for day care. Uh, you know, it was, it was different, you know, And if you paid the women the pay, they were. It was a menial fee. You know, they wouldn't have to pay the kind of money that they pay now, you know? So it was. It was. And it was it was safe, you know, back in the 60s, in the seven 70s. Our parents wanted to keep us safe. Mm hmm. Okay. In the 70s, I was, bro. Mm hmm. So. But it was the city was changing.

Amber Flemings: So you say the city really started to undergo a huge change in the 60s and 70s?

Patricia Flemings: Yeah.

Amber Flemings: And that change happened in, like, not only cost, but in safety and in community. The community wasn't as tight knit as it used to be when the safety declined. And then also there was problems with heroin coming into the city. Yeah. And then also you mention prostitution. There was prostitution in the.

Patricia Flemings: Prostitution was rampant. It was it was rampant on 12th Street until street. Yeah, it was rampant. And so when they burned down 12th Street. Mm hmm. The prostitutes moved from 12th Street to Woodward Avenue.

Amber Flemings: So there was prostitution on 12th Street prior to the riots?

Patricia Flemings: Oh, yeah, because that's where everybody was.

Amber Flemings: So 12th Street was just like this. Like big happened in a place like this where all the businesses.

Patricia Flemings: And the girls worked in the bars and, you know, they worked in the bars and. They worked in the bars and. I think it was a I wish I could call Kathy and asked her, Can I do that? No.

Amber Flemings: I'm really sorry. I want to.

Patricia Flemings: Know. It was in this restaurant. It was they had one in New York and it was really everybody would go there after they would go to the bar at a bar with clothes. So he had.

Amber Flemings: Like a after hours.

Patricia Flemings: But it was no, it was it was a legal restaurant.

Amber Flemings: No, I mean, like a like when the bar closed down. It's the place everybody goes eat afterwards.

Patricia Flemings: They would go there or they would go to use Barbecue's Barbecue. It was on 12th Street. You know, there's a lot of places that they would go, you know, and they would have breakfast. And it was it was just different. But then you knew who the players were and who they weren't because they came in looking like Superfly. Superfly. Yeah. You know, that was they you.

Amber Flemings: Say you knew the players were. What do you mean? But like, who were the players and what did they do to be players?

Patricia Flemings: I mean, you know, they were in the underworld. They were gangsters. You know, they were pimps, prostitutes and and gangsters. Very gangsters. Yeah, but that's what a lot of killing was going on in Detroit.

Amber Flemings: And what time was this story?

Patricia Flemings: This was during the 70s. They killed a lot of people, you know.

Amber Flemings: So when the the pop up with the gangsters and stuff, this was also another reason.

Patricia Flemings: That's how they became gangsters.

Amber Flemings: Because of all the crime and things that were increasing in Detroit.

Patricia Flemings: Right. And it was all about drugs.

Amber Flemings: So of than drugs in the 70s.

Patricia Flemings: In the 70s.

Amber Flemings: Okay. Sorry. During the 60s and 70s when everything was changing and becoming less safe, less community oriented and more focused on crimes and drugs and everything. Where were you during this time in Detroit?

Patricia Flemings: I was I was I got married when I was 18. Mm hmm. Okay. And so because my mother was so strict, her and my dad, they were so strict. So I got married, and I decided to go to school for nursing. Mm hmm. And so basically, my time was spent. Going to school, you know? And then by me having a husband, I had to. I was a housewife and a student. You know, I. And I always had my nieces and my nephews. Mm hmm. So I wasn't involved in a lot of the stuff that was going on. Mm hmm.

Amber Flemings: So you always. You were always taking care of people, so you didn't really like you saw what was going on, but you weren't involved, what was going on because you were more family oriented.

Patricia Flemings: I was more family orientated, but I still had family members that were involved. Everybody I mean, people a lot of people would be ashamed to admit that. But I'm not ashamed of anything that my family has ever done. And my I had family members that were involved.

Amber Flemings: Mm hmm. That were involved in being gangsters or.

Patricia Flemings: And they were basically dope dealers, you know, And if you were a dope dealer, you came across gangsters. I mean, because they needed dope to get nerve up to kill. Oh. So I ran across people like that, which would be at my sister's house. Her and her husband. Oh.

Amber Flemings: Which sister was my oldest sister? Yeah, one sister. That was in Tennessee. And then you have one that stayed in Detroit?

Patricia Flemings: No, she was in Tennessee as long as her husband was stationed in that part of the world. But then she went to Alaska. Oh, that's another place. I went to Alaska. I went to Alaska with my sister and stayed for a couple of weeks.

Amber Flemings: How did you like that?

Patricia Flemings: I didn't. I didn't.

Amber Flemings: What about it was.

Patricia Flemings: It was cold and they moose would walk around. You'd look out the window, they'd be looking in the windows. You know, the women stunk. Oh, well, they start. Really? The Alaskan women? Mm hmm. They used that whale grease in their hair. Mm hmm. And it stuck to high heaven. Oh. And so for the soldiers to see me. A black girl from a city and not, you know, from Detroit, that was like, desert. So I had a ball with. With my brother in law's associates. Mm hmm. You know, because all the guys were, like, all around me. They just loved it.

Amber Flemings: All the other guys were excited to see, you know.

Patricia Flemings: A black woman.

Amber Flemings: In a black woman in the middle of.

Patricia Flemings: Alaska. that wasn't married.

Amber Flemings: That wasn't married.

Patricia Flemings: Yeah. And didn't have any children.

Amber Flemings: And didn't feel like.

Patricia Flemings: It didn't smell like whale oil, you know, and was attractive and was like, you know what I'm saying? And so I had a ball on that. But as far as Alaska as a place.

Amber Flemings: To live, it just wasn't for you.

Patricia Flemings: It just No, no. I went there because my sister had just had her baby delayed. She was about ready. She hadn't had it. She was getting ready to have it. Mm hmm. And she needed me there. Mm hmm. To help her with the baby for a while. So I stayed there for a while.

Amber Flemings: But you always came back to Detroit, correct?

Patricia Flemings: I always came back to Detroit. And my mother even told me in the 80s, I think it was the end of the 70s or the beginning of the 80s. My mother used to tell me, she told me, she says, you know, you know, they used to call me Chichi. But she says, Cheech, I think that sometimes you've got now you could get out of one place. Mm hmm. And it's time for you to relocate. And I thought about that for a long time, but I couldn't leave my mother.

Amber Flemings: And she wanted to stay in Detroit.

Patricia Flemings: She wanted to stay. But now that I'm older, I understood. I understand what she was saying. I could it because Detroit was like going through all kind of transitions and stuff was just not stable, you know? But if I had gone to another place, I could have gotten it together. She always considered me the strongest one of my sisters. Mm hmm. And she knew that if I went there, wherever I chose to be, it would be a good place. And if she chose to, she could come with me. Eventually, she probably would have followed me. Mm hmm. So. That's why I went to Toronto. That's because my mother. She was. She spent years in Toronto. Mm hmm. You know.

Amber Flemings: And so you follow her there? She followed you there?

Patricia Flemings: No, no, no, no, no. I went there once. Was. I think I was, like, 19. Mm hmm. I went there just to see. I liked it, but it was a costly place to live. Mm hmm. So I decided to come back.

Amber Flemings: So if it hadn't have been as costly, do you think you would have stayed in Toronto as opposed to Detroit?

Patricia Flemings: I think I would have, because I really liked Toronto. It was it was very little racism, you know? My mother spent experience with racism in. Quebec. Mm hmm. A guy she and I, we were walking down the street, and he spit at us. Mm hmm. But I think that was not like. Oh, you know what I'm saying? That never happened in Toronto.

Amber Flemings: So Toronto there was very little.

Patricia Flemings: Racism. It was. It was like. It was liberating. It was liberating. Yeah, it was liberating. I mean, because they were it was a different kind of people. The city was clean, you know, It was just a good place to be, you know. And so but I would have stayed there. But it was really, really costly.

Amber Flemings: You said that you always came back to Detroit because Detroit was home. Mm hmm. Can you explain more about, like, why why Detroit was just always home?

Patricia Flemings: Number one, my mother was here. Mm hmm. And any place my mother was was home. My grandmothers were here. Mm hmm. And they were getting older. Mm hmm. And my father was negligent of his mother. Mm hmm. And so I wanted to make sure that everybody was okay. And any place where family is as home as home.

Amber Flemings: And that's where you always came back to Detroit.

Patricia Flemings: That's always came back.

Amber Flemings: Regardless of, like, the changes that was going on in Detroit and the lack of safety.

Patricia Flemings: I always thought that it would get better. I was always hopeful for the city. Mm hmm. I always felt as though it's going to get better. And because I had seen Detroit go through changes before and we always bounce back. Mm hmm. Okay. So I felt in my heart that things were going to get better. I remember when the men in Detroit didn't have jobs. Mm hmm. And then all of a sudden, it wasn't all of a sudden. But then people got jobs. Everybody was working. Mm hmm. That was the way Detroit was. It was off and on. Mm hmm. So through that, you learn to save your money, you know, because this isn't going to last forever. Mm hmm. You learn it gets something substantial. Mm hmm. Like a house. You know, you learn to do things differently. But, yeah, I was stuck. The choice with would eventually be what she used to be.

Amber Flemings: So do the ups and downs. Detroit taught you to be resilient in the save your chips, save your money to, you know, enjoyed the good times were prepared for the worst.

Patricia Flemings: Yes.

Amber Flemings: Okay. I guess my next question would just be. How do you feel about Detroit today? Like with this changes, with this the decline there, you think? How do you feel about today's Detroit? Do you have hope for it to end? Do you still have hope that Detroit will improve, or are you just ready to throw your hands up?

Patricia Flemings: I still hope that Detroit I still have hope. A lot of hope. I still have faith. I think that's what keeps me going. Mm hmm. I still. Do it. The kind of work that I've done in my life. I've seen things change. I've seen people change. I've seen mothers. I seen mothers that were really mothers. Mm hmm. And I've seen their children grow up. Mm hmm. To kill their children or walk away from their kids. This is something that was never heard of, you know? So I have a lot of hope for Detroit. But I think that there's a lot of things that have to be implemented. For. I don't think it'll ever be like it was. That's over. But I think that we could get awfully close if we if if we as Detroiters, start communicating with our neighbors because we don't know our neighbors. Mm hmm. You know, we need to know who we're living next to. Mm hmm. We need to stop that. No snitching stuff. That's ridiculous. Mm hmm. I mean, I think that these people that's still in metal in. In tearing up our property. I mean, these properties are valuable pieces of history. Mm hmm. And these guys, I mean, they have no respect. Mm hmm. People have no respect for each other anymore. They don't. When I was coming up, if a senior got on the bus, we had to get up. Mm hmm. You know, we didn't have to, but we were taught that's what you do. Mm hmm. I think that people have lost that. They don't respect the elderly. They don't respect each other. Mm hmm. It needs a lot of work. We need a lot of prayer. Mm hmm. Everybody in this city needs to set aside a time where we as a people pray for our city. Because at this point, Duggan ain't gonna do it. Okay. You know, it's. It's. It's only so much he can do. Mm hmm.

Amber Flemings: So. The the best way to improve Detroit at this point with all this changes and how much is kind of decline is to first start with prayer, to then stop the no statue rule, to support your neighbors, to to not only know your neighbor, but to care for them. Mm hmm. And then that would improve the city a lot. That would bring it. If not back to is is brilliance that it was when you grew up, it would at least bring close to that that beautiful nest that you grew up with.

Patricia Flemings: I think yes, I think that. But we have to change people's minds. We have to change people's mindset. Mm hmm. You know, and so many because of the 70s and the 60s. Mm hmm. You know, so many people are. Their brains are twisted and messed up. You know, we don't have mental facilities in this city anymore. And I think that that's really something that's really needed. Jail is jail. And I think that we do need a jail in the city. We don't need 4 or 5 jails in the city. Mm hmm. I think people if you give give people jobs, they will work. Mm hmm. You know, I think that if you give people therapy and get their mind straight, I think that they'll be an asset to the city. You know, I think that if they change public assistance around. Mm hmm. And. And start taking care of these kids. Mm hmm. You know, I think that there should be a limit on how many kids. I know that that sounds like. Communism or whatever, but I think that I don't think that women should have multiple children by multiple men. And they're not there. Mm hmm. To support your children, I think men need to learn what a father really is. I think the reason they're not fathers is because they never had a father. Mm hmm.

Amber Flemings: So.

Patricia Flemings: We go a lot of work.

Amber Flemings: A lot of a lot of work that that needs to be done in Detroit to get it back to what it was like. It needs. It needs better. It needs more work. It needs It needs more jobs. It needs better. What is it? Not necessarily health care. Better support for the women who have multiple children and know. And then also people's mindset needs to be changed as far as family.

Patricia Flemings: We need more schools, I think. I don't think that they should shut another closed another school down. Mm hmm. I think that there should be schools. I think schools should be plentiful. Mm hmm. You know what I'm saying? Because without education, there's no future. Mm hmm. Okay. I think that all these children is running. Running around in gangs. When I came up, it had gangs. Mm hmm. You know, they did have one gang over Eastside called them shakers. Mm hmm. That was dissolved in no time. I think that we need a good police force. I think we need people that live here in the city. You can't come from Troy. Mm hmm. And fix the ills of. What's going on in Detroit? Mm hmm. You can't come from Birmingham and places like this. Mm hmm. You know, in Farmington and Fix Detroit. Mm hmm. I think Detroit Detroiters need to get together and work on fixing Detroit. It's not going to happen in my lifetime. I understand that. Mm hmm. But I think that in 30, 40 years from now, Detroit should be. Oh, the place to come. Instead of the place not to visit. Hmm. You know, I think Detroit is a beautiful city. It have. I think she has a lot to offer. Mm hmm. I think the people. I'm not blame. I think that the people and the politicians that we have elected have chosen to tear apart piece by piece. I think that they're working on downtown because they're not working on downtown for you or I. Mm. Okay. I think they're working on downtown and Belle Isle. And I mean, just like I was listening to an interview the other day on Belle Isle. Mm hmm. We should have watched that being what's happening in Detroit. I wanted to see that this morning. But anyway, they're implementing this. I think, you know, I've always been for reform when it comes to Bella. Mm hmm. But now they've got these state troopers of park rangers which have the same authority as state troopers. Mm hmm. And they're all of another race. Mm hmm. They're going to come into Belle Isle and search our baskets because there's no drinking at the island, which I agree with. But I don't go along with that because. Because. Stop all mentality. Mm hmm. And that's what's going to happen. Somebody. Something bad is going to happen. Mm hmm. You know, I mean, just like the seniors swing out. They don't involve it. When I graduated, that's what we did. That was a ritual. That's what you do. You go to Belle Isle and you swing out, and the only thing you're doing is riding in the car, blowing your home girls, and riding on the car. You know, the guy riding on the cars. It's a tradition. Mm hmm. That's what we do. Mm hmm. That's what we've always done. That's what my mother did. That's what, you know, everybody that I could think of. Everybody does a swing out. Mm hmm. You know, And now you're not gonna be able to do that at Belle Isle. I think it's a travesty. Hmm. You know, it's not a lot for the people in Detroit to do. There's nothing when you really think about it, there's absolutely nothing in Detroit that where you could go in and enjoy it. You know, Palmer Park is not a good park because it's full of homosexuals. So if you got kids, you got a really you know, you got to it's it's not a good place. Mm hmm. You know, because it's full of all these perverted people. And, I mean, it's just Detroit is salvageable. Mm hmm. If the right people get together salvage it, you know, and make it not only for one race of people, make it for all people. Just like I said when I came up, it was a Chinese family that owned clothing a store. It wasn't just a black community. It was a community. It was all kind of people. And I think that's what we need to aim for. You know, we need to aim for Detroit being pleasant for everybody. I think it should be something everybody should want to come to, you know, not because, you know, this is one of the president most prejudiced cities. It's it's really not good because if you go up north, you might not come back in certain parts. Mm hmm. When you the further north you go, the worse it is. And, I mean, this is stuff that people know but they don't publicize. Mm hmm. There's so much stuff going on. All this hate and, you know, stuff. It needs to stop, because in the year 2050, everybody's going to be beige anyway. Mm hmm. You see what I'm saying? So all this race stuff needs to go. Mm hmm. All these drug dealers. And they're not going to go away. Mm hmm. But they need to be. They need to go. I mean, really, you know, they need to stop. They sell drugs to kids. That's not good. I mean, Detroit is a wonderful place, you know? But I'm scared. The real you know, I'm scared to drive alone at night. Mm hmm. You know, we never know who's coming to replace our so on.

Amber Flemings: Yeah. All we've talked about is about where your parents grew up. And we talked about where your father and your mother grew up in Detroit and talked about where you grew up in Detroit. It's about how Detroit has changed over time. I went from a community, a safe community to a drug resistant, drug infested Detroit that it is today. And now it's not safe to walk down the street, even if you are just going to a library or to drive alone at night. And we've also talked about what you feel will be the solutions to try to get Detroit back to what it was, back to back to this community, feel safe and good. And during that, you mentioned several ways that you felt like could help improve Detroit, whether it was with prayer or if it was opening up more recreation centers. So it can be some some type of activities for people to do to just have fun. You mentioned a few options. At this time, I would like to thank you for this interview. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I hope that you have too. And once again, thank you for this interview.

Patricia Flemings: You're welcome. Glad I could be of assistance.

Amber Flemings: Yeah. Thank you. Bye.

Patricia Flemings: Let me hear.